The Complete Guide to ADHD Nutrition MYTHS (And What Actually Works)

Look, I get it. When you're struggling with ADHD symptoms and someone tells you there's a dietary fix that could help 78% of people improve their symptoms, you're gonna want to try it. Who wouldn't? Especially when you're dealing with food aversions, executive dysfunction around meals, and all the other challenges that come with our neurodivergent brains.

But here's the thing: that number isn’t accurate. And this is exactly the kind of misinformation that drives me absolutely up the wall. I had somebody on social media the other day tell me I was being "dramatic" when I said ADHD is the most studied mental health diagnosis we have, with over a thousand studies. Like, no – that's an actual number, not me being extra.

So let's dive into the biggest nutrition myths floating around ADHD spaces and talk about what the research actually shows. Spoiler alert: it's way less dramatic than what you've been hearing online.

The Elimination Diet Myth That's Making Everyone Worse

I was talking with nutrition researcher Annika Angelo recently (listen to the episode here), and she brought up this perfect example. Dr. Mark Hyman posted about a 2011 study claiming that 78% of people with ADHD improved their symptoms on an elimination diet. Sounds amazing, right?

Except when you actually look at the research and run the numbers correctly, only 46% of kids showed slight improvement. We're not talking about dramatic, life-changing improvement here – we're talking about a 30% reduction in somesymptoms. So if you had 10 ADHD symptoms, maybe 3 of them got a little better.

But wait, it gets even more interesting. There's a 2023 study that compared elimination diets to just following basic healthy eating guidelines (like what we're supposed to be eating anyway). Guess what happened?

• 35% of kids on elimination diets improved

• 50% of kids on healthy diets improved

• 56% of kids with regular therapy and medication improved

So elimination diets actually performed worse than just eating normal, healthy food.

The Real Problem with Elimination Diets for ADHD

Here's what really gets to me about this whole elimination diet trend – it completely ignores the reality of living with ADHD. We already deal with food aversions. We already struggle with executive function around meal planning and cooking. And now you're telling us to eliminate even MORE foods?

What are we supposed to eat? Air?

The stress of following an elimination diet can actually make ADHD symptoms worse. Think about it – you're adding another layer of complexity to something that's already challenging. You're creating more rules, more things to remember, more decisions to make when your brain is already overwhelmed.

And for many of us, especially those without a stay-at-home parent dedicated to managing this kind of restrictive eating, it's just not realistic. Elimination diets are only even possibly feasible when there's someone completely dedicated to it. But how many people in this country actually have that luxury?

The inherent stress of elimination diets is probably a huge reason why a lot of people don't actually experience improvements when they try them. Our bodies and minds are already dealing with enough.

The ADHD Food You're Avoiding That Actually Helps Your Brain

Angela says she sees it in the comments all the time: "I avoid fruit because it has so much sugar and sugar is bad for ADHD."

Y'all. This is heart-breaking. Because when true nutrition researchers – not social media influencers – talk about fruit, they talk about it as one of the best things we can do for our brains. Just in general. But we've been so scared of sugar that we're avoiding one of the most beneficial foods for our ADHD brains.

The Fruit Fear Needs to Stop

Here's what's wild – fruit is actually one of the BEST things we can eat for our ADHD brains. I'm not even exaggerating here. Fruit improves something called BDNF (brain-derived neurotrophic factor), which is basically what allows our brains to have neuroplasticity and improves our working memory and cognition.

But we've been so scared of sugar that we're avoiding one of the most beneficial foods for our brains. The thing is, fruit isn't just sugar. It's packed with nutrients and fiber, and that fiber is what prevents the insulin spike everyone's worried about. Instead of that quick up-and-down energy crash, you get sustained energy release.

It's funny – I went through my own phase about 10 years ago where I was terrified of fruit. I'd only eat vegetables if I was going to have any produce at all. Looking back, it was honestly scary how warped my relationship with food had become. Now when I look at fruit, I see fiber and nutrients. I barely even register the sugar content anymore.

What the Research Actually Says About ADHD and Sugar

Okay, so here's what we know from the actual studies:

People with ADHD do tend to eat more sugar than the general population. But – and this is important – eating more sugar isn't associated with an increase in ADHD symptoms. ADHDers just tend to eat more of it.

There IS one caveat though: high doses of sugar all at once can increase ADHD symptoms. But this isn't really about sugar specifically – it's about binging in general. Too much of anything at one time can mess with our dopamine receptors.

So here's the deal: if you want to eat eight Kit Kats in a day, that's fine (barring you having a diabetic or blood sugar condition that you need to manage). Just don't eat them all at the same time. Spread them throughout the day.

But Why Do We Crave That Sugar Rush?

This is where it gets really interesting from a behavioral standpoint. Logically, we know we could have those eight Kit Kats throughout the day and it would be better for us. But that's not really what we're after, is it?

We're not actually trying to eat eight Kit Kats. We're trying to feel that feeling we get from eating eight Kit Kats in a row. We're looking for that dopamine rush, that surge of energy and happiness. And binge-eating sugar is one way our brains try to get there.

That's why in therapy (I practice Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, by the way), we spend time on metacognition – really understanding what you're trying to get from that behavior. Are you actually wanting the sugar, or are you wanting to feel energized and happy right now?

This is one of the reasons I love ACT over CBT. CBT feels like "that's faulty thinking and you've gotta do it the right way," and especially if you have any PDA tendencies, you don't want to be told what to do. ACT is much more about putting control in your hands and focusing on what's actually important to you.

The Real Issue: Blood Sugar Regulation

Here's something fascinating that we're learning about ADHD: our insulin metabolism works a little differently than it does for neurotypical people. We have some preliminary evidence that people with ADHD have different insulin metabolism, which might be why we have a significantly increased risk of both Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes.

Fun fact: ADHD medication actually decreases the risk of diabetes significantly because it helps regulate how our bodies use nutrients. (It also decreases the risk of suicide and Alzheimer's, but that's another post entirely.)

This is why blood sugar regulation is so important when you have ADHD. But it's less about WHAT foods you're eating and more about HOW you're eating them. Are you balancing your plate with protein, healthy fats, and fiber? Or are you just having a bowl of mac and cheese (which, let's be honest, none of us are getting the whole grain version)?

I personally visualize it like an insulin spike – the higher you go up with simple sugars, the lower you crash down. That's how I see the energy spikes and depression lows with ADHD. It's exactly how Annika talks about hunger cues with ADHD too – you just don't experience them, and then you hit a threshold and it's an immediate deep dive where you can't even eat because you're just... rotting.

Why Everything You've Heard About Red 40 and ADHD is Wrong

One of the biggest myths I see floating around ADHD spaces is that the US has worse food safety guidelines than the EU, and that our food is basically poisoning us with additives and dyes that other countries have banned.

I hate to break it to you, but this just isn't true. And it's causing a lot of unnecessary stress and guilt around food choices. I was literally fighting with people online about this before the election because everyone was talking about how they were gonna "clean up our ingredients," and I was like – no, they're just gonna deregulate the need to label things. That's Trump's whole thing: deregulation.

The Truth About US vs EU Food Regulations

Here's something that might surprise you: the US actually bans MORE food dyes than the EU does. I know, I know – this goes against everything you've probably heard on social media. When I first learned this, I was like "no freaking way, they're lying." But then I looked into the research myself.

The EU doesn't ban Red 40 – they just call it something different. Most countries have pretty similar regulations around food additives. The US actually has some of the most stringent regulations for food dyes and preservatives.

So if our food regulations aren't worse, why do people feel better when they eat in other countries? Honestly, it's probably expectation effects combined with vacation vibes. When you're traveling, you're less stressed anyway. And stress? That's way more inflammatory than any food additive.

When I'm on vacation, I don't have to worry about what I'm gonna eat the next day. I know I'm going to eat out at a restaurant – I've planned for that, I've budgeted for it. Or maybe I've bought groceries and I'm cooking something, but I don't have to go to work the next day. I don't have to worry about my emails. That is it. That's literally it.

The difference isn't the food – it's the stress (and probably how much you’re walking as well).

What the Research Says About ADHD and Food Dyes

Here's the interesting part: people with ADHD aren't actually more affected by food dyes than the general population. About 8% of kids show increased hyperactivity or inattention from artificial food dyes – and that rate is the same whether they have ADHD or not.

So if food dyes can affect some people, but it's not specifically an ADHD thing, what's going on?

The answer might be histamine. Annika explains that there are specific variations in histamine genes that make some kids more likely to experience behavioral changes from food dyes. It's less about ADHD and more about histamine intolerance.

And histamine intolerance is becoming the new trendy thing to blame everything on – kind of like cortisol was before. We always need something simple and easy to blame.

The Preservatives That Might Actually Matter

Now, there are a couple of preservatives that research suggests might impact ADHD symptoms, but specifically for boys and specifically for kids:

1. Mono-butyl phthalate - This isn't really found in food, but in plastic exposure. So when you're heating food, use glass containers instead of plastic. Use wooden spoons instead of plastic ones when cooking. Small changes like that.

2. Ethyl paraben (E214 outside the US) - Found in some baked goods, soft drinks, jams, jellies, and packaged seafood. You can check ingredient labels for this one.

3. Sodium benzoate - This is interesting because it's been researched the most and was actually the first preservative approved by the FDA. It might affect kids who are sensitive to histamines.

Notice a pattern? It keeps coming back to histamine sensitivity, not ADHD specifically.

The Real Factors That Actually Impact Our Symptoms

You know what actually affects our ADHD symptoms way more than whether we eat gluten or Red 40?

• Whether we have access to healthcare

• Our stress levels

• Our financial stability

• Our support systems

• Our genetics (which, obviously, we can't control)

These are the things that make the biggest difference, but they're not as sexy to talk about as a magic diet that'll fix everything.

When I talk about stress, I'm not talking about the kind you can breathe away. I'm talking about the external sources that cause stress – like not knowing if your healthcare is gonna exist next month, or if it does exist, it's costing you the same as a mortgage. All of those things are out of your control, and there is no breathing away that stress.

The Real Culprit: Stress and Systemic Issues

Annika shared that there's a study that looked at vitamin D and depression in relation to financial stress. Vitamin D only helped people with depression if they were financially stable. Your body literally can't absorb nutrients as effectively when you're under chronic stress.

This is why I get so frustrated when people focus on individual food choices while ignoring the bigger picture. If we really want to improve health outcomes, we need to talk about universal healthcare, not just food dyes.

It's like they're telling us to look at this one tree they're saving while bulldozing the entire forest – I really liked how Annika put it this way. I'm convinced that HHS RFK Jr. focuses on food additives specifically because it's the perfect distraction.

The One ADHD Nutrition "Hack" No One Talks About

You know what's helped me more with eating regularly than any supplement or elimination diet ever has? Other people (aka community).

I'm serious. When I look back at the biggest changes I've made around food and nutrition, almost all of them come back to community in some way. It's always been so much easier for me to eat (and eat well) when I'm with friends. Always.

The Reality of Eating with ADHD

Let's be real about what eating with ADHD actually looks like. We deal with:

• Food aversions that can change daily

• Executive dysfunction around meal planning and cooking

• Sensory issues with textures, smells, and temperatures

• Time perception issues that makes us forget to eat until we're hangry and can barely function

• Energy crashes that make even our safe foods feel impossible to eat

• ADHD being a dynamic disability – some days we have energy, some days we have literally nothing

And then we're supposed to just... figure it out on our own? While also managing work, relationships, and everything else life throws at us?

Yeah, that's not happening. Annika shared how lately she’s been feeling irrationally angry that she even has to eat. She says, “it just makes me mad that I HAVE to do this thing,” and I added “especially when it threatens our autonomy.” The more you know you have to do something, the worse you want to do it – it's like our brains are working against us.

And I just know this is an experience most of you can relate to.

The Magic of Eating with Others

Here's something I've noticed: it's always been so much easier for me to eat when I'm with friends. Always. Even if we're not eating anything particularly "healthy" or special – just the act of eating with other people makes food more appealing and accessible.

Annika (the nutrition researcher I was talking with recently) told me she FaceTimes her sister for every meal when her husband is traveling. Because when he's gone, she just... doesn't eat. And I was like YES, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

It's not just about accountability – though that's part of it. It's about making eating feel less like a chore and more like a connection. External motivation is probably the one trick that actually works for us.

There's something about the dopamine hit of social connection that makes food more appealing. When I'm by myself and overwhelmed, even my favorite comfort foods can feel nauseating. But put me at a table with friends, and suddenly I can eat.

Practical Ways to Build Food Community

I know not everyone has a sister they can FaceTime or a partner who helps with meals. So here are some other ways to bring community into eating:

Virtual eating buddies: Find online communities or friends who want to eat meals "together" over video chat. There are even apps and Discord servers for this now.

Meal planning with friends: Instead of trying to meal prep alone (which, let's be honest, rarely works long-term for most of us), coordinate with friends. Maybe you take turns cooking for each other, or you all make the same recipe and share how it turned out.

Body doubling for food prep: Have a friend hang out (in person or virtually) while you both do food prep. You don't have to be making the same things – just having someone there makes it less overwhelming.

Regular restaurant dates: This doesn't have to be expensive or fancy. Coffee shop work dates where you both eat something. Regular Tuesday pizza nights. Potluck dinners where everyone brings something simple.

The Anti-Perfectionism Approach

Here's what I've learned from years of trying and failing at perfect nutrition plans: the goal isn't to eat perfectly. The goal is to eat regularly and without stress.

Some days that looks like a perfectly balanced plate with vegetables and protein and healthy fats. Other days it looks like cereal for dinner and a protein shake for breakfast. Both are valid.

The community aspect helps with this too, because when you're eating with others, you're less likely to get caught up in perfectionism. You're more likely to just... eat.

A long time ago I stopped trying to plan out the next month and be like "I'm gonna just have the willpower to do it." No. Instead, I reflect: what did the last month look like? What did I like about it? What were my favorite breakfasts? What were my least favorite? And I build from there.

Every day is different with ADHD. We have to work with that, not against it.

When You're Desperate for Answers

Look, I get why elimination diets and food additive fears are so appealing. When you're dealing with a chronic condition and someone promises they have THE answer, it's tempting to believe them. Especially when traditional medical approaches haven't given you all the relief you're looking for.

But here's the thing I want you to remember: anyone who says they can "cure" or "heal" your ADHD through diet alone is throwing up a huge red flag. Run the other way. If they say they can help you manage symptoms or put things into remission, okay, maybe we can think about it. But cure? No.

I've talked to people who have spent $150,000 in two years on alternative medicine trying to cure themselves, lost their entire life savings, and have no hope of getting a house anytime soon. Because there was such a desperation to fix what was going on with them, and no one had answers except for people who said they had answers but really didn't.

This really is a lesson in curiosity and staying open without desperately needing an answer. Because when you desperately need an answer, you're going to cling to anybody who will just say "I have the answer, let me give it to you." And you're gonna try it over and over again because that feels better than sitting in ambiguity.

The Grief of Letting Go

And I think it's just even harder when you have a chronic illness, because there is so much grief that comes from letting go of the idea that you can heal yourself. There's also that aspect of yourself that's kinda screaming, "why are you trying to get rid of my hope?"

And we don't wanna do that either before we're really ready, because hopelessness without the tools to be able to sit in it can lead to really scary things. That's where therapy comes in – a therapist should hopefully be able to guide you to navigate that without pushing too hard on acceptance before you have proper tools in place.

The Bottom Line

The moral of this whole conversation is just: release the pressure. Nutrition, as much as we wish it could do a lot, only counts for about 20% of our health outcomes, if that. And community? Community is everything.

The only way to stay consistent with boring (but effective) habits is through community. Like, Annika goes rock climbing with her husband twice a week. In the interview, she shared with us, “Yesterday I did NOT want to go. I was like this is boring, ugh. But he dragged me out and it was good. I was glad we did it.”

Sometimes you need someone to push you along when things feel boring. Other times your energy is just low and you need to take a break. Learning that intuition requires community, mistakes, and trial and error over and over again.

It's Not Your Fault

Before we wrap up, I need to say this:

Our symptoms don't represent just our nutrition – they're influenced by genetics, environment, access to healthcare, stress, financial status, and so many other factors that are largely out of our control. Do what you can, but know that you're going to have bad days even when you're doing everything "right."

Your ADHD is valid, it's real, and it's not caused by your food choices. You deserve evidence-based treatment and support, not shame about what you eat.

So focus on your stress, work on nervous system regulation, go to therapy if you have access to it, and remember: the goal is progress, not perfection. The goal is eating regularly without stress, not following the perfect ADHD diet that doesn't exist anyway.

And please, for the love of all that is good, don't let anyone convince you that avoiding Red 40 is going to cure your ADHD. That's not how this works, and anyone telling you otherwise is selling you something.

If you found this helpful, I dive deeper into these topics on my podcast. And remember – there are so many things controlling our health besides what we eat. Do what you can with what you have, build your community, and be gentle with yourself. You're doing better than you think.

Annika Angelo is an expert in ADHD nutrition research with an MS in Health Psychology. She specializes in helping people with ADHD reduce their symptoms through nutrition science. You can learn more at nutrimindlab.com/team/annika-angelo/.

This blog post is based on an interview with Annika Angelo, nutrition researcher, on The Chronic Illness Therapist Podcast. For more resources on navigating healthcare challenges, subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on social media.

Disclaimer: Everything we discuss here is just meant to be general education and information. It's not intended as personal mental health or medical advice. If you have any questions related to your unique circumstances, please contact a licensed therapist or medical professional in your state of residence.

Listen to Annika’s interview with me, Destiny Davis, on Ep 95: The ADHD Brain Food Everyone Says to Avoid & A Secret Ingredient for ADHD Nutrition

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• Episode Transcript

  Episode transcribed with AI and will contain errors that are not representative of the actual word or meaning of the sentence.

  Annika Angelo MS ADHD Nutrition

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: ​[00:00:00] so today we're gonna talk about nutrition myths around A DHD. I'm looking forward to this. Um, why don't we have you introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about your studies and what you're doing these days, and then we'll kind of start talking about some of the myths around A DHD and diet.

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. So my name is Annika. I'm an A DHD nutrition research expert. So essentially what that means is that I have read an excessive amount of literature on A DHD nutrition specifically. So my master's degree was in health psychology, which is that intersection between like health sciences and psychology science.

  And it kinda like blends it all together. And then my specific focus in it was behavioral nutrition. So behavioral nutrition is, you know, like. Essentially all of that like, but like add specifically nutrition into it. Like how do we approach food? How does it impact our brain, like the neurology of it too.

  It's really fascinating. So, yeah. And now I'm just, is behavior 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: talking [00:01:00] about it more about how our behaviors affect our food choices? Or is it about how certain nutrients affect our behaviors? 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah, so behavioral nutrition is definitely more of the behavioral aspect, and then neuronutrition is more of the like the brain aspect.

  So as I've been like working past my master's degree, I am specializing more in Neuronutrition as well. So I have a lot of. Knowledge and the behavioral aspect and like emerging more in the neuro nutrition space. Great. Um, yes, super good question. It's like so close,

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: yeah. No, definitely. I mean, I think, yeah, sometimes it's hard to parse out these little differences, but when you're in the fields they are like, you can, it's a huge difference between what you do and they all impact each other. But I think it's really important, especially in this day and age, for us to just all know what our scope of practices are and then how we can help each other in the other fields or enter another field given our last scope [00:02:00] of practice.

  Yes. I had somebody the other day on threads reply back to me about something regarding like ADHD studies and I was like, A DHD is the most studied mental health diagnosis that we have. There's over a thousand studies. And she thought I was exaggerate. She thought I was being dramatic. I was like, I don't even know how to continue having a conversation with you at this point because you think I'm lying and like just being dramatic.

  And I'm like no. That was like an actual number. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah, like that's true. Yeah. That's the really interesting thing. 'cause I don't know, research is my vice. I love reading it so much. Does it give me brain fog very quickly? Yes. Because it can be quite difficult to try to wrap your head around.

  Even for me, like I'm trained in it, right? Yeah. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: It's hard. It's hard. I don't really do well with reading research, but I try really hard to lean on the people who do read research [00:03:00] because it's important. You know, I think right now research is so divisive, um, online,

  Annika Angelo MS: yes. That is something that just irks me so much, which I'm sure we'll talk about as well.

  Just how much representation there is out there on A DHD Nutri and how much of it is false. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah, 

  Annika Angelo MS: why is that? What, where is this coming from? Such a good question. I just think about even like last week, we know Dr. Mark Hyman, right? Yeah. He is, for those who don't know, he is a very pronounced figure in the wellness space, and he just posted a post about how, there was this 2011 study that looked at people with A DHD and put them on an elimination diet and 78% of them improved their A DHD symptoms.

  And yes, that had, there was something in there, sort of like that, but he completely misrepresented the study and the statistics just to like push an agenda. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: [00:04:00] Yeah. Which is which? What is the agenda? 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah, that's a great question. I, I wish I knew his agenda. What kind of feeling do you have to have to be able to read a study or, honestly, I don't even know if he wrote a study.

  'cause like I said, the statistics were completely misrepresented. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Like in reality, only 46% of the kids improved their A DHD symptoms. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: And 

  Annika Angelo MS: it's, yeah. So when you 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: actually like, look at the research and you run the numbers the right way, it, it's 48%. And then what does that even mean that they improved their symptoms?

  Because people might still be like, oh, okay then this means there's something there at almost 50%. 

  Annika Angelo MS: And it's like not a significant improvement in the A DHD symptoms. I'm pretty sure, if I remember right, that specific study, 30% of their symptoms improving was the si, like what they said, that they could say it improved their symptoms.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: So it's like only 30% of the symptoms they have. So let's just say they had 10 symptoms. Is, am I getting that right? Yeah. [00:05:00] Or is it that, or is it that their, are 10 symptoms all improved by 30%? 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah, it's more, it's more that secondary outcome. Say they had difficulties focusing in school or something like that.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Then they had a 30% improvement in attention. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Okay, I see. And it's all self-reported measures, right. 

  Annika Angelo MS: It was sort of, it was self-reported from the parents as well as teachers. And they all knew who had the elimination diet. They all know who had the control diet. And so there was a lot of expectation effects going on.

  Yeah. And if he really, really wanted to talk about the elimination diet, he should have talked about the one that came literally out in 2023. I looked at elimination diets and a d, adhd. Can you tell us that one? Yeah, that one is actually one of my favorite studies. So they compared the difference between elimination diets and so they eliminated all of the typical.

  Allergens. And then they also eliminated high histamine [00:06:00] foods, antihistamine inducing foods such as food dyes and some preservatives. And then they compared that to following the dietary guidelines from the Netherlands, which is approximately the same as the dietary guidelines in the United States. And then they also had care as usual.

  So basically they didn't give them any dietary instructions, they just had them go through psychotherapy and medication. Okay. And what they found was 35% of the kids who did the elimination diet, improved their symptoms. 50% of the kids who did the healthy diet improved their symptoms, and then 56% of the kids improved their symptoms with the care as usual.

  So yeah, elimination diets aren't even like the answer here. The answer for nutrition is essentially. Eat. Eat what we're supposed to. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah . Like just, yeah. Yeah. And I think there's so many other issues that come along with an [00:07:00] an elimination diet, not eating enough calories, not getting enough fiber, not getting enough other nutrients.

  And especially for someone, maybe you can speak a little bit to like, food, I know in my, in clients that I work with, which is a very small sample size, but we all experience food aversion, so we already have the aversions to food and now you're telling us to eliminate other food. And so like what is left?

  Annika Angelo MS: Exactly. And like that is the issue with the elimination diet that people who are studying it, like the people who talk about it, are the people who tend to be more in that space of we can do anything to improve our mental health, our physical health, like it's all in our control. And eliminating things feels like it's in our control when in reality our symptoms do not represent just our nutrition.

  It's so many things at once of like, obviously it's mainly our genetics for starters. [00:08:00] Yes. But then our environment that people don't wanna talk about is the fact that we have access to healthcare is going to be one of the biggest things that determines your symptoms. Yeah. Uh, your stress is perhaps one of the most important ones as well.

  Financial status is a huge one too. Yeah. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah, that's my big kind of pet peeve or soapbox is actually when we do talk about stress and managing stress, it also becomes this thing of like, of which you can control. And, um, you know, then we start talking about taking deep breaths and thinking positively.

  And it's like, the external sources that cause stress, like not knowing where your next paycheck is gonna come from, not knowing if your healthcare is gonna exist n next month or not, if it is gonna exist, it's costing you the same cost of a mortgage. Like all of those things are out of your control.

  There is no breathing away that stress. Um, right. And so that, 

  Annika Angelo MS: and then like you said, with the added stress of the elimination diet, like of course, I think that's a [00:09:00] huge reason why a lot of people don't actually experience improvements when they do the elimination diet because it is so inherently stressful on our bodies and our minds.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. Yeah. The only time that it's gonna be even possibly feasible is when there's kind of someone dedicated to it. So let's say you've got a parent at home who is a stay at home parent and they don't mind, like, this is their job and they don't mind fine. But how many of the, that's so, uh, such a small representation of, of the people in this country.

  Annika Angelo MS: Yes. Yes, it is. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. Elimination diets and, and I talked about this on a recent podcast with a dietician and, and kind of people also do them way too long. They're never meant to be long-term. And so, yeah. So far we're just talking about elimination diet, but I'm so curious to kind of also talk about some of the other myths that are out there.

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. I mean, there's so many, right? We can go into like almost any deep dive, but I feel the first thing [00:10:00] that people tend to have questions about is sugar. Hmm. So let's start there. What have you heard about sugar? 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: The one that comes to mind first and foremost is red 40 for me. But sugar not so much.

  I've only heard like sugar, I've only heard of like sugar in the terms of like it being inflammatory. I think more that comes up for me more, um, when I'm researching or looking into uh, fibromyalgia. I don't see it a whole lot with a DHD in the a DH ADHD conversation. So I'd love to hear what you're hearing in that conversation.

  Annika Angelo MS: Oh, that's so fascinating. Almost every single time I talk about even fruit, 'cause I talk about fruit a lot 'cause fruit is one of the best things we can do. Just in general. Fruit is amazing, obviously. Like, I love to hear that fruits and vegetables and that seed grains per team, uh, anyway. It's always say, it sounds 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: so silly to say something so simple, but it's not like truly, I mean fruit is, it has been feared for a long time because of the sugar content.

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah, and what I get in the comments so [00:11:00] often is saying, I avoid fruit because it has so much sugar and sugar is bad for your A DHD and like that just breaks my heart because it is the complete opposite. What we actually see is that fruit is actually one of the only things that improves something called BDNF, which is that brain derive neurotrophic factor, which is the thing that allows us to have neuroplasticity and improves our working memory and our cognition.

  So fruit is imp, it's so amazing. What a lot of people get wrong with fruit is that they think it's just sugar, right? I'm sure you've talked about this or heard about it from dieticians and everything, but us, not just that it is so full of nutrients and it's full of fiber and the fiber is the thing that stops the insulin from spiking.

  And it allows us to have that just extended release of energy instead of just the quick up and down. So, 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: yeah. But beyond that, I think that, yeah, that probably [00:12:00] is what I've heard most around the sugar conversation is like just the, yeah, the highs and the lows of energy spikes. But yeah, I've been on the fiber train for a long time, so I, for that's funny.

  It's funny to kind of hear some of this, not funny but sad a little bit to think about this stuff so many years later. 'cause I was very much like warped in that world 10 years ago and slowly crawled my way out of it and yeah. Now like when I look at fruit, I see. Fiber or nutrients. I like barely even register sugar in my brain.

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah, I love that. I feel the same way. Like I went through a period of my life where I avoided fruit. I only ate vegetables if I was going to eat some sort of like, you know, fruit or vegetable. Yeah, same. It was like scary. Yeah. But then when we like learn about the nutrition aspect of it, it becomes a lot less scary.

  Yes. That being said, the insulin question is a really important thing to talk about though with A DHD because we do have some preliminary [00:13:00] evidence that our insulin, like the people with A DHD, their insulin just metabolism and how it works in our bodies is a little bit different than the general population, which may be why a lot of us also have diabetes, like both one and two.

  We have a significant increased risk of it. Fun fact medication, A DHT medication decreases the risk of diabetes significantly yes. Which is amazing because like it, it helps our bodies. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. I think, um, we're learning so much about just what treated A DHD looks like and it also decreases risk of suicide, Alzheimer's.

  Yeah. So many things. Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: It's amazing because like it actually regulates how our body uses the nutrients. Um, I think that is one of the coolest things about the research on A DHD medication because I mean obviously like that's what I care about a lot. Yeah. The nutrient aspect. Yeah. But yes, insulin regulation, so sugar specifically like [00:14:00] overconsumption of sugar is associated with A DHD.

  However, it's not associated with an increase in A DHD symptoms, meaning that essentially people with A DHD just tend to eat more sugar. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: There is a small caveat here. High dose sugar at one time is associated with increasing A DHD symptoms. Like and yeah, exactly. And it's also similar to just binging in general.

  So binging is also associated with increasing A DHD symptoms over time. The like reason for this is because what we've found in the literature is that too much of something at one time can actually affect our dopamine receptors in our brain. Like any, too much of anything. Pretty much. Yeah, that is, that's really the key here, is making sure that if you're eating sugar, like just spread it throughout your day.

  Yeah. Like if you wanna have eight cacas that day, that's fine. Just don't eat them all at the [00:15:00] same time. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes. Yeah. And I think that's one of the, this is more down the like mental health behavioral side of things, but that's one of the hard parts is like we kind of unknowingly are looking for that sugar high or that dopamine rush, or I'm sure you could say it a little bit better, but I, you know, I think that it makes it really hard to make these behavioral changes because logically, you know, like, okay, I can have eight Kit Kats, but it's better if I have 'em throughout the day and so I should just do that.

  But we're not really trying to eat eight Kit Kats. We're actually really just trying to feel that feeling at the end of eating eight in a row. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Mm. Whoa. That was such a good point right there. Oh, that was good. So like having that ability to like that metacognition, like, wow, what am I actually trying to get at right now?

  Yeah. Is it the sugar or is it, I want to feel like I have a lot of energy, I [00:16:00] wanna feel a lot of happiness right now and that is the avenue that I'm trying to get it through. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes, exactly. Yeah. That's why like at least in in therapy, so I practice acceptance and commitment therapy and this therapy is not about, and you know, I know everyone gold, CBT Gold standard for A DHD, but there's some, I love 

  Annika Angelo MS: some A CT.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah, I just, ICBT never worked for me. I never made, and then CBT therapists will say like, well they just weren't good therapists. I don't know. I've read a lot of CBT and a lot of act. And Act definitely resonates more with me because it's much more like. It's, um, puts the control in your hands where CBT is kind of like, that's faulty thinking and you've gotta do it the way, the right way.

  And it's, it's, I know that no, no therapist says that, that you have to do it the right way, but that is the message that's internalized, especially if you have any kind of like PDA kind of mm-hmm. In front of you. You don't wanna be told what to do and, and [00:17:00] that's just period, the end. I don't need to fight hard to change that.

  I'd rather just practice, act 

  Annika Angelo MS: and, yeah. I sort of wonder if there's also an aspect of CBT is targeting behavior rather than like whole person change. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Or like, I don't know, maybe it's like more like instead of like restorative, like a CT might be a little bit more restorative for the person. CBT might be more like just focusing on your behavior.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. And it, it, it is, and I mean both of 'em are behavioral therapies, but Yeah. Um, acceptance and commitment therapy is much more. We focus a lot more on values. We focus on what's important to you. If something's not important to you, we're not gonna put any effort or energy in there. 'cause why we don't need to.

  Mm-hmm. There's no reason to. That's not, you know, but if you're having consequence after consequence after consequence and it is important to you to change this, now we can work with that. So that's how that works in my, in my [00:18:00] therapy space. Anyway. 

  Annika Angelo MS: I love that. I really should get back to therapy. Gotta be honest.

  I know 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: it ebbs and flows. 

  Annika Angelo MS: It does, yes. But I mean, I know we were talking about nutrition, but I mean, I think that's just a fun conversation in general to have like therapy and A DHD is such an important thing. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: I haven't had therapy specifically for a d adhd, like I've had it for depression and anxiety.

  So yeah. I feel like I've learned a lot. About my d adhd, I don't 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: know. Yeah, yeah. Well, a lot of, a lot of females are misdiagnosed with depression and anxiety rather than a DHD. We know that now. And it doesn't mean that you don't have, that, you don't also meet the criteria for depression and anxiety.

  But again, if we're looking at root causes, and I say that lightly 'cause there's never one single cause. Yeah. But is your depression, does your depression and anxiety go away when we treat the A DHD? And for a lot of people that is the case. Not [00:19:00] always, in which case you just have two, three conditions and that's just is what it is.

  And we treat all three. But still, and that's why, again, I love act because it's it, it, it is. Targeting everything at once as one whole person. Rather than like, oh, let's, this is for your depression and this is for your anxiety. It's like my nervous system knows one thing, A DHD, highs and lows, and sometimes that feels like anxiety and sometimes that feels like depression.

  That's all I know. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Wait, that felt so accurate. And so I'm currently in a space of almost like burnout, I'd say for A DHD. And when I'm in that burnout space, it looks a lot like depression. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: But first it looks a lot like anxiety. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Exactly. Personally, I visualize it as an insulin spike. So the higher, the higher your sugar, your simple sugar, again, you could probably word this better than me, but the higher you go up and the with the insulin, the lower it [00:20:00] crashes down.

  That's how I see the energy spikes and the depression lows with A DHD or bipolar, or any kind of like manic depression as well. I see it the same way. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Whoa. That's like exactly how I talk about hunger cues with a DHD. Yeah. You, like just don't experience it and then like you hit the threshold and then it's an immediate deep dive and you are like, you cannot like even eat at that point sometimes because like you're just, you, you're rotting from like, I can't do anything.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes. Do you find that that's like where aversions 

  Annika Angelo MS: come from? I personally, like from my own life and from like people I've talked to, when you're in that low, it is almost impossible to just like eat even like some of your comfort foods. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's so hard. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yep. It's like a very physical, like nausea or like a gagging almost.

  Even though, yeah, it could literally be your, yeah, 

  Annika Angelo MS: and that is [00:21:00] related to insulin regulation, which like the blood sugar regulation aspect, which is why blood sugar regulation is so important when you have A DHD and honestly it's less about the foods that you're eating and more about like how we're eating the foods.

  Like how is your plate organized? Like do you have mainly carbohydrates? Are you having a good balance of fiber and protein and fat on your plate? I think like that's the other area that a lot of us get wrong too. We think that our plate is great, but then when we compare it to the actual recommendations for A DHD, it's like, okay, so like let's just like take mac and cheese for example.

  A lot of us will just have a bowl, mac and cheese 'cause it's super convenient to eat. However, most of it is carbohydrates. So like when you have a big bowl of mac and cheese, pretty much all carbohydrate and like, let's be honest, none of us are getting the whole grain, mac and cheese. [00:22:00] 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: No, I don't even get Danza anymore.

  For me, I'm like, I'm, if I'm gonna eat pasta, I'm gonna enjoy it. 

  Annika Angelo MS: So like what's one thing we could do? Maybe we could add some peas to it. However, that's still technically a carbohydrate, even though it has some good fiber in it. It's still mainly a carbohydrate heavy meal. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: So adding protein to it is super, super important to help make sure that our insulin doesn't spike too high and so that it doesn't go too low.

  Like what we were just talking about. Yes. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. One of my favorite tips for that is shredding up my protein of choice because I have a really hard time with chewing meat. I do eat meat. And, but it's hard, and so I just shred it up in a food processor and I throw it in. Things like that, like mac and cheese, et cetera.

  Do you have any tips that help you get your protein in? 

  Annika Angelo MS: Oh gosh. I, okay, so side note, lately I've been feeling like [00:23:00] a lot of just feelings. It's just why I need to go to therapy, like some anger feelings, especially around food. Yeah. And the fact that I have to eat and the fact that I have to eat protein specifically.

  Yes. Yes. Like it just makes me irrationally angry that I have to eat protein. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 'cause it threatens our autonomy. We don't want to. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Exactly. And the worst thing is, like, I, it's probably that like PDA aspect too, right? Yeah. Like the more that you know, you have to do something, the worse you want to like it's so the brain, it's yes.

  It's working against us. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: I know. And for anybody listening that's resonating with us also, like there is hope. I have noticed lately that my anger, my bursts of anger around like certain things that I know I have to do but I don't wanna do, are so short-lived compared to before. I mean, before they would be like, it would be months I just wouldn't do the thing for months.

  And every time I would try to, I'd get angry about it and so I just wouldn't do it. And now it's [00:24:00] like through all of that, like through exposure to anger, through values based therapy and like figuring out what, what is important to me. All of that, having kids help because it felt like now it's my duty to make sure that I am modeling properly for them and it's now outside of me.

  Annika Angelo MS: The external motivation, I would say that is probably the one trick that actually works. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. So even like eating with other people, like if it's, if you don't have kids, like eating with friends as much as possible and building a community of it doesn't always have to be eating out and spending money and eating things that we're, you know, we're trying, we're talking about health here too.

  So, there's, everything is involved in that. That community. Eating with other people I think is one of the biggest things. That's the hardest thing to do. But one of, for me, that's always been the most important. It would always be so much easier to eat if I was with friends. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. Honestly, I FaceTime my sister whenever, so [00:25:00] sometimes my husband has to go to work trips and when he's gone, Ooh.

  It is not good for me because I do not eat. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: And so I call my sister every single, like breakfast, lunch, and dinner just to make sure that like I'm actually making food and then we like, are eating food together and it's great. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Absolutely. Yes. I love that. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah, so I guess that, like you said, that that is a trick, like having the people, a community around you.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Another thing that helps me specifically with protein is just having a list on my fridge of specifically breakfast options. It's pretty easy for me to eat protein for lunch and dinner, breakfast. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. What are some of your go-tos? What are you, when you are able to, what is some of the things that you try to incorporate?

  Yeah, 

  Annika Angelo MS: so I think it depends on when I, has obviously A DHD is a dynamic disability, so some days we have energy, some [00:26:00] days we have like literally nothing. Oh, it's the worst on those days. Yeah. So like my low energy days, I will just grab a protein shake. Like pre-made protein shakes are one of the help, like most helpful things I've ever had in my life.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. Otherwise, I will also like, make my own. So I'll like put Greek yogurt, soy milk cocoa powder, pan butter and maple syrup together. Mm-hmm. Just blend it all up and it's about 30 grams depending on like, which which Greek yogurt you're using. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, and like that's, that's a really great option as well.

  So those are some of them. Otherwise I'll have Greek yogurt with some granola and berries. That's a great ratio of your protein, fats and carbohydrates. And then another one. Just, honestly I hate cooking eggs, but hard boiled eggs. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: [00:27:00] Yes. 

  Annika Angelo MS: They're so, so convenient. 'cause you can just pull it out. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes. Do you like, like egg sandwiches, like mixed with mayo or do you just like a hard boiled egg.

  Annika Angelo MS: Oh, I make deviled eggs every single time. I make a nice a Yeah. Hard boiled egg. I don't like regular hard boiled eggs. BJs gross. But I could like pop like four. Yeah. If they're Devil eggs. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. One of the things I always recommend for clients, and I do this for myself too, is to write a list of things in your phone notes so it's always with you.

  And when you find something that you like, like you don't need to sit down and journal for trying to figure out for an hour what this list should look like in the future. I'm a big fan of reflective. Thinking rather than like planning ahead because with a DHD, like it just, a lot of times it, it depends on our mood and we're not going to follow the plan that we put ahead of us.

  And so, oh 

  Annika Angelo MS: no, it's Every day is different. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes. Yeah. So a long time ago I [00:28:00] stopped, I stopped trying to like, oh, this is what I'm gonna do, or This is my budget for the month, or this is my diet plan, or my, whatever it was. And it's like, no, okay, what did the last month look like? Okay, what did I like about the last month?

  What were my favorite breakfasts? What were my least favorite? Okay. We're not putting that on, like, I'm not buying that this month or, and just kinda, and it goes on the list of these are the things I like, these are the things that are always in the house. And when I just don't feel like eating, I know I can at least like force this one down without too much of a pro.

  Like, it might not be the best. I might not feel the best, but like I can get it in. Like the smoothie that you mentioned, 

  Annika Angelo MS: you are genuinely a genius. That is, I don't think any, I've heard anyone like. Verbalize it out in that way. Mm-hmm. How to like, figure out what's working and what's not for a DHD. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: I don't know if I'm like, at the point where I can adopt that because like my brain feels like it's too overwhelmed right now, in general, I get that.

  But like, when I am in a better place, really better believe, I'm gonna like, [00:29:00] think about, oh, how did my last month go? 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: What worked, what isn't working anymore? And then let's go into the next one. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. Yeah. I, I was tired of trying to plan out the next month and being like, I'm gonna just have the willpower to do it.

  No. Even with, you know, when we hopped on here, you said I, I kind of shared with you my podcasting, flow and you were like, oh, you're really organized. That is purely from three years of promising myself, I was gonna get a podcast out every single week no matter what or how I felt. And it never happened.

  And then was finally like, okay, let me reflect and let me look back and let me figure out what worked and what didn't work, what I liked about what was easy to post about this podcast. Why did I get that one so much faster than the other one? Like, just lots of reflection. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. I love that because like, that's exactly why I decided to concentrate in a DD nutrition.

  So back when I, like last year when I started my Instagram page, I, at first I was like all [00:30:00] things mental health and nutrition. So like the intersection between like depression, anxiety, yeah. A DHD. And I figured it out that I really only liked talking about the A DHD part. Like that's what actually got me excited.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. And so you just went with that. Exactly, and now it's like less burny, I guess. I don't know what a good word for that is. Yeah, but it's easier, right? It's like it's easier for your brain. I love that because it's something you love. Yes. What are some other myths that are coming to mind around like anything A DHD?

  It doesn't even have to be about diet, it can just be about behavior or like, yeah. What are some things you hear specifically? That's a good question. Well, I mean, you did say something about red 40, so maybe we should talk about food diet because I'm sure a lot of people have questions and thoughts about that.

  Yeah, 

  Annika Angelo MS: so I think the biggest myth here, first of all, is that the US has worse guidelines than the [00:31:00] eu, which. I mean in general, the EU has a lot better guidelines for health in general because they have more walkable cities. They have a like access to healthcare. They have a lot of amazing things that the US doesn't have.

  Yeah. So anyway, that's a separate conversation. However, the US actually bans more food diet than the EU does. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: I feel like we need, yeah, to just sit with that for a moment because that is absolutely the biggest myth and I feel like people are not gonna believe that if that's the first time that they've heard it.

  But it's true. 

  Annika Angelo MS: I know when I first heard it, I was like, no fricking way. They are lying. And then I did the research myself and I was like, wait, this whole time when people have been saying that the EU is better, like quote unquote better than the United States on all this, they were lying 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: not to mention, right?

  They don't ban red number 40. They just call it something different. 

  Annika Angelo MS: [00:32:00] Yeah, also that. Oh my gosh. But yeah, like I think that's the first thing to say. Like in general, the dietary guidelines and the different regulations that different countries have around food are, for the most part, pretty similar. Like seriously, most of them are pretty similar.

  And the US actually has one of the most stringent regulations for food dyes, preservatives, things like that. Yeah. So I think like that's one thing just to note like our food isn't getting poisoned. It is just like we actually have safer regulations than a lot of other places. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: So like what's the difference?

  The difference is that 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: think uh, yeah. I'm curious also what you think about like the fact that people go actually. I'm trying to think. Somebody did explain this one time, and I can't remember the exact reason, but [00:33:00] when people go to other countries, there's the walking of course. But even to Canada.

  I've heard this recently, like, oh, when I eat in Canada, which I have family in Canada, and I've never noticed a difference in symptoms or GI stuff or anything when I'm eating in Canada versus the us. So I don't know, but I have been hearing that a lot on social media lately. Like in Canada, we don't have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

  And so, I feel better when I eat here and I'm like, I don't, is this a mind thing or like, is this accurate? 'cause I did, I know I didn't have that experience. 

  Annika Angelo MS: I, okay. Honestly, I'd probably say it's expectation effects. Like you expect that you're gonna feel better also if you're vacationing, you have less stress anyway.

  Yes. And so the stress is the most inflammation inducing. Part of our lives, like our food is not inflammation compared to stress. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: So let's take that first off. Right. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: I think, I think that's actually the whole thing. I think we can even just veer away from like specific [00:34:00] chemicals and really just I mean, like I said earlier, I do think that the stress conversation can be really hard to talk about because it just sounds like you're telling people when it's your fault if you're stress.

  That's, I think we've done a good job already here explaining that that's not the case. But yeah, when I'm on vacation, I don't have to worry about what I'm gonna eat the next day. I, you know, I know I'm going to eat out at a restaurant. I've planned for that. I've budgeted that. Like, or maybe I've bought groceries and I am cooking something, but I don't have to go to work the next day.

  I don't have to worry about my emails like. I, yeah, I, that is it. That's period. Like I don't, it's literally it. That's why I love Neuronutrition specifically because Neuronutrition looks at how these different things impact how our bodies absorb nutrients. Okay. It's fascinating And yeah, stress is basically the worst offender.

  Annika Angelo MS: I think one of the most interesting studies looked at vitamin D and depression [00:35:00] and financial stress, like the intersection of all of that. And what they found was that Vitamin D only helps people who have depression if they are financially stable. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: That makes sense. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yep. Like, I mean, a, that's horrible. Yeah, of course.

  The people who need it like are just, yeah. Like the poorer you are, the worse your outcomes are. Yeah. And it's not just because of like the location you're in or wherever, like whatever else could be going on. It's literally because your body is not absorbing the nutrients as effectively as it should be.

  Yeah. And so if we actually wanna make ourselves healthier, the answer here is money. I guess 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: it, yeah, absolutely. I mean, yes. And I'm convinced that RFK Junior was picked because they knew it would be the perfect distraction. Because if we're talking about [00:36:00] food dies, then we're not talking about universal healthcare.

  Annika Angelo MS: Exactly. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Exactly. 

  Annika Angelo MS: It's like missing the forest for the tree. Like they're telling us to look at this one tree that they're saving while bulldozing the entire forest. Yeah. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Oh yeah, a hundred percent. That's exactly what's happening. And it's so frustrating. 

  Annika Angelo MS: But back to food dye. Classic A DH ADHD.

  Tangents. Yeah. Uh, I think this is actually super interesting. So what we do know from the literature is that people with a DHD are not affected by food die specifically. In fact, we see that the rates of people with a DD getting affected by food D like increasing hyperactivity or inattention is the same rates as the general population.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Okay. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Fascinating stuff. So it's about 8% of kids we see getting impacted by food dyes. Like artificial food die. So there can be an 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: [00:37:00] impact is thing. Yes. And it has nothing to do with A DHD. So then the question is like, why has a DHD been tagged to red food 40? 

  Annika Angelo MS: Right. So that is actually the question.

  Like why is there that connection if it's not a DHD. What's going on? The answer is actually, what we're finding out is histamine. So there are, I mean, lots of histamine genes, right? Yeah. There's some specific variations in one of the histamine genes that if the kid has, they are the more likely to experience the increases in hyperactivity or in attention behavior.

  Okay. So it's less about A DHD and more about a histamine intolerance. Okay. Interesting. Super fascinating stuff, honestly. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah, and I'm a little bit cautious because histamine intolerance is also becoming really trendy online right now, and everything is being, yeah. Every symptom is now like being, like the people have, is kind of being pushed into, and I [00:38:00] have, I have those symptoms, so I'm not discounting that those symptoms exist. I literally will get rashes, head to toe, need steroid packs. It's really bad. It's like the new cortisol. Yeah, exactly. We always just histamine something to to blame. That's like simple and easy. Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: And there are some interesting things with histamine and a DHD like for example, specifically females in general or like people who have, uh, female hormone patterns.

  They have interesting things with something called DAO or diamine oxidase, and that impacts how severe the histamine can impact us. So I'm sure you know a lot about that. Yeah. Feel free to 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: share more. I think it's important. Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: I mean, I, the, the supplements didn't do anything for me. It wasn't until I got on a prescription, but yeah.

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. That's hard. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Uh, DAL it is, honestly, I say [00:39:00] it's more important than histamine. We, like in general, if you have like MCAS or something like that, you should go to your physician and get instructions from them. But if you like suggest like, or think that maybe you have some sort of histamine intolerance that's not like clinically diagnosable.

  Yeah. Like maybe you just like have some sort of like a gluten intolerance that's not celiac. I would not recommend reducing your histamine foods because honestly the histamine foods, they are so nutritious. They're very important to continue to have, it's more, we wanna increase our production of diamine oxidase.

  And the biggest thing here is eliminating alcohol and also eliminating nicotine. Interesting. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Okay. So what about for people who don't drink or smoke, what are some things that they can do to increase that DDA. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Ooh, that's a good question. I have to, I would have to look at my entire huge document. Yeah.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. I'm 

  Annika Angelo MS: pretty sure, if I remember right, one of the things that improves regulation was zinc or [00:40:00] like the excretion of it was zinc. And I think the other one is calcium, and I think the last one was copper. I would not quote me on this. Um, however I could get you the information later if you wanted it, but the biggest thing just in general is eliminating alcohol and nicotine For sure.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: What kind of practitioner would help you with that? 

  Annika Angelo MS: For improving like histamine and stuff? 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. Or like one who isn't going to just kind of maybe give you an antihistamine and send you along your way, but they're actually gonna say like, here's some ways we know how to increase d. DAO. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Oh, I mean, honestly, I would just ask for a registered dietician, like a referral to them.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. Especially 

  Annika Angelo MS: one who has experience in MCAS or just in general chronic illness. I mean, there are some things, like fibromyalgia is one where there's a lot of research out there. Not a lot of people [00:41:00] know it. And so you wanna make sure that you have a dietician who knows that research, which could be hard.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: That makes sense. Yeah. That stuff. And that's where I think it gets easy to get swept up in a lot of the online stuff, because influencers and wellness people will kind of read a couple things and then they'll say like, I know this thing that your doctor doesn't know, but doctors are kind of often waiting for, they, it's an interesting thing.

  They're waiting for more evidence that they're not doing harm, and then people are now kind of attacking them for doing harm by waiting too long. And I'm sure that's a really hard place to be in. Because all of these experimental, like I've had, I have, I've talked to people who have spent in like two years, $150,000 on alternative medicine trying to cure themselves, lost their entire life savings, have no hope of getting a house anytime soon.

  Like, because there was such a desperation to fix what was going on with them. And no one had answers except for people who said they had answers, but really didn't. And [00:42:00] so it's just, it's hard, which is why, you know, I'm curious and, and want to keep talking to you about the research. So it's important to know, like when it's important to say, when we don't know, and then people have an informed choice of saying, well, I do wanna try that experiment, or I do, you know, this is, but knowing this is an experiment and I am opting to choose this, um, rather than like a, a promise that's like, this is gonna cure you.

  And then it, but really it was an experiment the whole time. 

  Annika Angelo MS: I think you just hit the nail on the head there. Like anyone who says that they can cure or heal any type of chronic illness or disability, and that includes like mental health. Anyone who says they can cure it or heal it, we run away from that.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Right. Like that is huge red flag. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah, absolutely. 

  Annika Angelo MS: If they say they can help you put into remission, that's maybe more of like a Okay, maybe we can think about it. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. Then when they like add research to [00:43:00] it, then we're like, oh, okay. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: I absolutely yeah, 

  Annika Angelo MS: but it's hard, like when we're desperate to feel better.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah, it is. It is really hard. You just want answers, you know? Yeah. And you know, we have, so, we have so much research. It's, it's hard to know why there isn't, there aren't more answers. I was glad to hear you say, you know, there's really a low histamine diet is like not really the way to go. Um, because again, that diet is stressful.

  Oh, it's so hard and oh my gosh, histamine changes in food the longer it sits out. And like you never really know. It's not like a avocado that has X amount of fat always has X amount of fat. The histamine changes by 

  Annika Angelo MS: the minute. Yeah. And like there are some things you could try to reduce, like, we know that artificial food dies can release histamine in some people.

  So like if you're histamine sensitive, then yeah, it makes a ton of sense. Like it usually doesn't add much to your palate [00:44:00] anyway, so it's okay just to not eat them. Yeah. But is it adding stress to take rid of it, 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: exactly. And usually the answer is yes. Or honestly, and I think this is the other, maybe this is really relevant to A DHD, but you know, when we start something new, we're excited about it and doesn't feel that hard.

  It's like, oh yeah, our new hyper, hyper fixation and it's just really easy to do it. And we're like, no, this is great and everyone should do this. But then as soon as we stop and we kind of fall off the wagon with it, we stop posting about it. We stop talking about it. 'cause we have shame around it as if it's our fault because, you know, we lost the motivation.

  We just couldn't follow through. But this thing is still great. It's just our fault we're we are the problem. And so I think that's important to talk about because influencers all are guilty of this as well. Um, and they do influence, right? So when you stop hearing your favorite influencer [00:45:00] talk about something, you should probably pay attention to that.

  When they kind of silently start to ghost a topic. It usually means something like it actually wasn't the holy grail that they were saying it was a month ago, and they realized that, or again, they didn't realize, they still think it's their fault that they just couldn't follow through. Not realizing like this was never sustainable to begin with.

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. And then it's like so much more for a person with a DHD, like you were saying. Yeah, exactly. Just the whole, like the insulin you're on the elevator and then, uh, it drops. Yep. Yes. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: It's so hard. I was just kinda, I know this is just a Google search, but I was curious like, okay, well what are bloggers saying about like, in how to increase DAO?

  And it's just funny, the, the, um, advice always comes back down to the basics. It's like, this specific blog is not a scientific article, but a she does, she is selling a book on a, a low histamine diet. So of course her number one is to adopt a lowest histamine diet. But [00:46:00] out outside of that, she says, balance your fat intake.

  It says eat the right proteins, minimize harmful ingredients, support gut health, take some supplements, find a DAO supplement, reduce histamine release with natural antihistamines. Like, all of these things are, there's nothing magical about, like there's nothing golden about it. Yeah.

  This is like the basic advice for anyone with MCAS, for anyone with histamine intolerance. And again, we're just, I think we're often searching for that golden. Thing. And that is what has always done the most harm in my own life. When I start to come back to the basics, it's boring. It doesn't give me a dopamine hit.

  I don't, and I 

  Annika Angelo MS: think that's the hardest thing too, right? Like, I mean, going back to the first part that we were talking about with elimination diets versus healthy diets. Healthy diets are boring. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes. 

  Annika Angelo MS: It does not seem like this Holy grail. It feels like it should just no, why? Why should I do [00:47:00] that? 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yep.

  Right. 

  Annika Angelo MS: And yet it's the thing that works. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. Every time. Which brings us back to community, because the only way to stay consistent with boring is through community. I mean, I think, Ooh, 

  Annika Angelo MS: gotta stay with 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: that 

  Annika Angelo MS: because it's less boring, right? Yeah. I mean, exercise for example, right? Yeah. Like. I just think about yesterday, like, so I do rock climbing, um, like bouldering in top rope.

  And I go with my husband twice a week at minimum. And I did not wanna go yesterday. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yep. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Did not. I was like, this is, I just, Ugh, boring. Yeah. And he dragged, he dragged us out and it was good. We 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: did 

  Annika Angelo MS: it. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes. I know. There's so many ways that, you know, these decisions get made too. Like sometimes it's 'cause it's boring and Yeah.

  We just need like, somebody to push us along. Other times our energy is just, it is low. We've gotta take a break. And, but I think like [00:48:00] learning intuition around that also requires, it requires community, it requires mistakes, it requires like trial and error over and over and over again, which is again, boring and hard if you don't like to fail.

  Oh, yep. What other things come to mind as far as nutrition myth. Um, that you hear maybe online? 

  Annika Angelo MS: That is a good question. Trying to like, go through the entire list in my head. I think the last thing that comes out a lot is preservatives. I'd have to look up the exact ones. Um, but there are two that may potentially impact A DHD, but specifically for guys with a DHD and specifically like kids that are, that have a DHD.

  And you know what, gimme like two seconds. Yeah. To pull it up. I wanna make sure that I'm seeing the right things here [00:49:00] 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: and I'll edit anything, any pauses out and stuff. Yeah, no worries. Perfect. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Okay. Gimme a second then. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Okay.

  You know, it's funny, in that blog, she didn't say to cut out alcohol 'cause they never do because it's always about the diet that they wanna sell or the they wanna sell. Cutting out alcohol is the hard and boring thing. 

  Annika Angelo MS: It is. It is.

  Okay, I got it. Okay. All right. So the two ones are mono butyl palate or flat? No. Put up the, I can't even say it. I'm gonna just call it think it like phthalates. Is that phthalate? Yeah. Yeah. It's like PHTH. It's like, how do you put that together? That makes sense. Yeah. Mono uyl, phthalate and ethyl paraben.

  So those are the two that might actually increase A DHD symptoms. So the amount of butyl salad is not found in food. It's mainly found in plastic exposure. So just make sure, [00:50:00] like when we are cooking, like if we're putting something in the microwave, put it in a glass container, not a plastic container.

  Just small changes like that. Or if you're using a. Plastic spoon to like you make your soup, maybe use a wooden spoon instead. You know, like, just like small changes like that could potentially help. Is it going to help a huge deal? Probably not. Yeah. Um, but it could potentially. Yeah. And then the other one is ethyl paraben or eat two 14 if you're outside of the states.

  And so that's typically found in baked goods, soft drinks, and some jams and jellies as well as some packaged seafood. So like if you have like seafood, like that's frozen, comes in a package? Yeah. It might have aval paraben in it. Okay. So you can always just check the ingredient list for the United States.

  It definitely will have it on there. [00:51:00] Mm. Some of the. Like the nutrition labels in the EU don't have the entire huge list of preservatives. That's also something to consider, like when people say like, oh, the US has more, it's more that the US forces the nutrition labels to tell us everything that's on the nutrition label.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. So, yes, I know. I, I was screaming this before Trump was elected. I was fighting with everyone online online about it because they were all talking about how they're gonna clean up our ingredients and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, no, they're just gonna deregulate the need to label. Like, yeah.

  Yep. That's exactly what's gonna happen. Not blame it anymore. Yep. That's whole Trump's whole thing is deregulation. I don't know how we're not 

  Annika Angelo MS: understanding this, but I think it's like that whole cognitive dissonance. Yes. It's just, it's really hard to break out of cognitive dissonance. It is. So hard. [00:52:00] The last like one is sodium benzoate.

  So sodium benzoate is like the preservative that has been researched the most. Okay. I think, if I remember right, it was the first preservative that was allowed by the FDA. Um, just because it has been like so well researched. However, it might affect kids who are sensitive to histamines, like if they have a DHD.

  There was a study that looked at it with kids with A DHD and specifically like the ones who were sensitive to histamine had some increases in A DHD symptoms. So again, like it kind of seems like it comes down to does your kid have histamine intolerance or not? Yeah. Yeah. Than, and if your kid does then, yeah. I think I, yeah, that's probably really the biggest thing there. Like is it a HD or is it histamine? That makes sense. Yeah, it's out of all those, that's probably the biggest questions I [00:53:00] typically get.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah, I was just reading more on this. Yeah, it is interesting. It, it's got me thinking, like our conversation has me thinking, 'cause my functional medicine practitioner did at one point say like, you don't have to cut out all these like, histamine foods, but maybe you might wanna try like the biggest offenders.

  And at that time I was just like, I, I can't, I don't have the bandwidth to think about restricting anything in my diet. 'cause I've worked so hard to not restrict. And I think it would set me back. And I think it would've, but I don't know, just looking at this list again, like alcohol aged in fermented foods, which I've already cut out, processed and cured meats, which I don't eat a whole lot of. I think that was the other thing actually, and now that I'm reading through this list again, it's like. I actually ha like, I'll eat these things on occasion, but I, I mostly have cut them out and still have big flareups. So clearly like this isn't the culprit.

  So I don't know, I'm just thinking [00:54:00] out loud here. Yeah, because I think it's important too, like as we're, you know, you and I are talking about diet myths, some research, what we know, what we don't know. And for a lot of people, I think that that is really difficult to listen to because of the cognitive dissonance.

  We want an answer, we want something to make sense. This really is a lesson in curiosity and like staying open and curious and not desperately needing an answer. Because when you desperately need an answer and there's something that can't give you, that you're going to clinging to somebody, anybody who will just say, I have the answer.

  Let me give it to you, and you're gonna try and you're gonna do it over and over and over again. And you're gonna keep trying because that feels better than sitting in this level of ambiguity. Because as I'm rea Yeah. I'm just like listening to you reading this blog thinking of my own experience and I'm like, still [00:55:00] don't have any answers.

  Still don't know what to do next as soon as I hop off this call. But I feel clo like it, I feel more informed. I feel like it was, yeah, I don't know. It is just hard thing to sit in. But I think that that's really the main culprit here with well, if we're going into like the whole wellness culture thing is the inability to sit with discomfort.

  And ambiguity not knowing what the answer is. And I think it's just even harder when you have a chronic illness. Yeah. Simply because like, there is so much grief that comes from letting go of the idea that you can heal yourself. Yes. Because then there's also that aspect of yourself that's. Kinda screaming, like, why are you trying to get rid of my hope?

  Yeah. Yeah. And we don't wanna do that either before we're really ready because hopelessness, without the tools to be able to sit in it can lead to really scary things. But, um, and so, you know, [00:56:00] that's where therapy does come in because a therapist should hopefully be able to guide to navigate that with you, to not kind of push too hard on the acceptance or push too hard on yeah.

  Acceptance without making sure there's proper tools in place that that won't send you down into a dark hole. Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Kind of seems like the moral of this whole talk is just release the pressure nutrition as much as we wish it could do a lot, it only counts for about 20% of our health outcomes if that and just.

  Community. Yes. Yes. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: What would you say are your top few foods or like types of foods that you feel is important for people to make sure they're getting? 

  Annika Angelo MS: I mean, besides the whole balance your plate aspect. Um, if You'all want to learn about how to balance your plate [00:57:00] appropriately to search Harvard Food Plate and that is the best one I would say.

  So the MyPlate needs to get updated. Okay. Which is also definitely not the food pyramid, which was updated back in 2011. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. Um, 

  Annika Angelo MS: but yes, just like look for the Harvard food plate and that is a great starting point. But for food specifically, beyond just making sure that you are eating a well-rounded plate, I'd say one of the best foods honestly is salmon.

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: It 

  Annika Angelo MS: is so full of the incredibly important Omega-3 fats that are the ones that are good for our brains. Interestingly enough, Omega-3 fats don't, we don't like really see an improvement with A DHD when we supplement. However, in general, like they're really important for inflammation and we know that A DHD gets exacerbated with inflammation.

  Yeah, but it's also an amazing source of [00:58:00] the precursors to serotonin and dopamine. It has a lot of vitamin B six, which is the one thing, like the one vitamin that is actually necessary in creating dopamine. Um, it also has a lot of magnesium in it. So honestly I'd say salmon is like one of the best foods.

  If you can have one serving of salmon a week, like go you or two servings every two weeks. Honestly, I just have like eight ounces of salmon every other week. It stays in our body for a long time. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: So good to know that it's that like just one a week is like good. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. I mean if we're talking about ideal, we would probably be having at least like two to three servings Yeah.

  Of some sort of fish or seafood every week. However, that is not realistic for a lot of us. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Canned salmon works just as fine as well here too, and it's a little bit more [00:59:00] accessible, pricewise for a lot of people 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: yeah. Yeah. Is there any concern? There's probably concern around histamine with the canned aspect of it, but we just have Yeah.

  Potentially. I, that actually was why I backed off some of the canned foods. I was worried about the histamine content, but. Price wise? Yes. And like I would just throw in like shreds of tuna or salmon into like eggs. Mm-hmm. Or on toast with a little bit of like mayo and some like pickled vegetables. Or, my biggest thing is just trying to have like snacks that are like meals and not trying to force these like three big meals a day.

  That, but just, yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yes. Snacking is one of the best things for A DHD actually. Fun fact yeah. Yeah. So, uh, go you in general. Yeah. Um. Not only is it easier to eat because it's like less cognitively overwhelming for our brains. Like it's so much easier to think of like, okay, I'm just gonna be eating some cheese curds and some [01:00:00] strawberries right now, versus like a whole meal that's like mixed.

  It has lots of different flavors at the same time it's, yeah. However, the A DHD brain also processes glucose inefficiently compared to the neurotypical brain. And essentially what that means is that our brains need more fuel more regularly. So yeah, that makes sense. Eating every like three to four hours is ideal for the A DHD brain.

  That makes so much sense. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: There was a thought I had and I lost it.

  I lost it because I just, it, I just got swooped back into this TikTok video that I watched like an hour ago where it was a weight loss doctor and they were talking about how. I mean, it was, it was bad. She was like, it was literally a doctor saying, I eat one meal, maybe two a day, and I don't snack snacks have no, no purpose in your diet whatsoever.

  And I was just like, this is so dangerous. Like, what is happening? No. Why is the song line by an MD no less? [01:01:00] But so y'all be careful. 

  Annika Angelo MS: Yes. I think that's like what really gets me, if like I ever slide into that, please feel free to come over and slap me. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Noted, noted. No, it's, you know, and it's hard not to, like, again, we want easy answers, but, um, we just have to learn how to be open to discomfort and, and staying confused for a minute while we gather all the data and then make an informed choice.

  Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: That's exactly it. Being comfortable with being uncomfortable and not having all the answers. Exactly. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Ugh. I know. Well, I appreciate you so much. Is there anything, well, let me ask, is there, are there any other tips that we have missed today, or any myths? 

  Annika Angelo MS: I mean, honestly, I think the biggest thing is just taking the pressure off of yourself.

  I mean, like we said, stress is so much worse for your A DHD than any [01:02:00] nutrition possibly could be. Yeah. So if you are stressed about your diet, then any changes you're gonna be doing to it is going to just. Pretty much not work for you. Yeah. So focus on your stress, work on some nervous system regulation.

  Go to therapy if you have access to therapy. Yeah. Maybe that's what I can talk about on your podcast, is like the stress tips around this. Yes. Oh, that would actually so good. 'cause there's so much stress. And then I can tell you all about my, uh, my A DHD and stress and food. We can do a case study. Perfect.

  But yeah, I think that's like, that's just, that's the biggest thing. And is recognized that it's not just you, you are not in complete control of your health as much as we wish we could be. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yeah. 

  Annika Angelo MS: It's not the truth. There are so many things that are controlling our health as well, like the location we're living in, how much money we have, the [01:03:00] community that we have around us.

  You know, like there's just so many things to account for. Yeah, do what you can and know that you're going to have bad days even though you're doing everything you can do. 

  Destiny Davis LPC CRC: Yes. So important to remember. It's not your fault. Yeah. Okay, Annika. Well thank you so very much. I'm looking forward to getting this one out there and and being on your show as well.

  Annika Angelo MS: Yeah. It's gonna be so good to talk to you more. Thanks for having me. Yes.

Listen to Annika’s interview with me, Destiny Davis, on Ep 95: The ADHD Brain Food Everyone Says to Avoid & A Secret Ingredient for ADHD Nutrition

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Annika Angelo is one of the leading experts in the world on ADHD nutrition research. She holds her MS in Health Psychology and has dedicated her professional career to teaching people with ADHD how to reduce their symptom severity using nutrition science.

Connect with Annika:

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Meet Destiny - The host of The Chronic Illness Therapist Podcast and a licensed mental health therapist in the states of Georgia and Florida. Destiny offers traditional 50-minute therapy sessions as well as therapy intensives and monthly online workshops for the chronic illness community.