We Don’t Choose Our Thoughts or Feelings, But We Can Choose a Meaningful Life w/Dr. Jennifer Steiner
“The problem is that worked when our problems were more simple and that. Not the way it works when we're talking about chronic illness and things that you didn't ask for or cause it, it doesn't apply here.”
Identity shifts, managing pain and illness, and cultivating resilience are all crucial aspects of navigating the complex journey of living with chronic conditions. Effective pain and illness management is essential not only for physical comfort but also for emotional well-being. Developing strategies to manage symptoms, reduce discomfort, and enhance overall quality of life is key to minimizing the negative effects of these conditions.
Cultivating resilience equips individuals with the tools to cope with setbacks, manage stress, and maintain a positive outlook, contributing to emotional well-being and overall life satisfaction
The Struggle of Shifting Identity
Navigating identity shifts is not just about adapting to new circumstances; it involves a deep introspective journey to uncover the core values and passions that remain constant despite the changes. It's a process of self-discovery that empowers you to transcend limitations and forge a renewed connection with what truly matters to you.
Dr. Steiner shines a spotlight on a fundamental challenge faced by those living with chronic pain or illness—the profound alteration of self-identity. The life before the condition, the moments of freedom and vitality, can become distant memories, leaving a void filled with uncertainty. The activities that once defined an individual may now be out of reach, and the question of "Who am I now?" becomes a poignant refrain.
Dr. Steiner understands the emotional and psychological toll of this transformation.
Navigating a New Normal
Discovering what holds deep meaning for you and integrating those elements into your life, even in the face of pain or illness, is a transformative process that can bring a renewed sense of purpose and fulfillment. When chronic pain or illness disrupts familiar routines and activities, it's an opportunity to explore and prioritize what truly resonates with your heart and soul.
For those burdened by chronic pain or illness, the concept of"normal" life can often seem elusive.
In the realm of chronic pain and illness, the mind can become a battleground, where unhelpful thoughts amplify the burden of physical discomfort. These thoughts, often fueled by fear, anxiety, or frustration, can cast a shadow over your well-being and exacerbate the experience of your condition
Finding the delicate equilibrium between what truly matters and societal pressures can be challenging in a world brimming with demands and expectations.
In a society that often extols the virtues of multitasking and juggling countless responsibilities, Dr. Jennifer Steiner emphasizes the importance of honing in on what genuinely resonates with your heart and soul.
Conclusion
As we draw the curtain on this insightful exploration, we find ourselves immersed in a tapestry woven with threads of identity shifts, resilience, and the intricate dance between emotional and physical pain. The journey guided by Dr. Jennifer Steiner's expertise has unveiled profound insights that resonate deeply within the corridors of our hearts and minds.
Amid chronic pain and illness, the concept of identity shifts emerges as a poignant reminder of the human spirit's capacity to adapt and evolve. Dr. Steiner's wisdom illuminates the path towards redefining self-concept, anchoring ourselves in the values and passions that remain unshaken, despite the challenges we face.
Disclaimer: Everything we discuss here is just meant to be general education and information. It's not intended as personal mental health or medical advice. If you have any questions related to your unique circumstances, please contact a licensed therapist or medical professional in your state of residence.
Destiny Davis, LPC CRC, is solely responsible for the content of this article. The views expressed herein may or may not necessarily reflect the opinions of the guest.
The content in this blog post comes directly from a real, human interview between Destiny and her guest on The Chronic Illness Therapist Podcast. This written version was formatted using AI. Listen to the full episode to hear the actual conversation.
Listen to my full conversation with Dr. Jennifer Steiner’s on Ep 10: We Don't Choose Our Thoughts or Feelings, But We Can Choose A Meaningful Life w/ Dr. Jennifer Steiner
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Episode transcribed with AI and may contain errors that are not representative of the actual word or meaning of the sentence.
Dr. Jennifer Steiner is a board certified clinical health psychologist who specializes in working with individuals with chronic pain and chronic illness.
Dr. Steiner is one of the first board certified clinical health psychologists in the state of Georgia. She received her PhD in clinical psychology with an emphasis in health psychology from Purdue university. She has worked with over 1200 individuals with chronic pain over the last 10 years and was previously employed as the primary pain psychologist for the Atlanta VA healthcare system for over six years.
She currently operates a private practice called beyond the body health psychology services, serving those with chronic pain and illness. Dr. Steiner has also published multiple peer review articles on the impact of chronic pain and mental health. Psychological correlates of chronic pain and psychological interventions for those with chronic pain.
Dr. Steiner grew up in a family where multiple members have auto immune conditions. She remembers realizing that everyone needed different kinds of support. And there has traditionally been very few or no therapists that were able to help [00:01:00] work through the physical and emotional issues that come with a life with chronic illness. This is what encouraged her to specialize in this type of therapy.
In addition to her work in private practice. Dr. Steiner is co-director of the center for mental health and Aging's continuing education program. Adjunct faculty at Emory university school of medicine. Board member of the Georgia psychology association, board of directors. Co-chair of the continuing education committee for Georgia psychological association. And member of the committee on health psychology and integrated practice.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: My name is Dr. Jennifer Steiner and I am a board certified clinical health psychologist. Um, now what that really means is that I work with people who have chronic pain and chronic illness, um, to just better manage how those things are affecting.
Their whole life. Um, and so right now I am in private practice. I own a 100% tele-health practice called beyond the body health psychology services. I'm [00:02:00] based out of Atlanta, but, um, through Saypac I actually can see people not only across the state of Georgia, but into 28 other states, I think now 30 other states.
So it's a pretty, um, it's pretty cool to be able to reach. Wherever they are.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: How do people usually find you?
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: So, um, various sources, sometimes it's referrals from doctors sometimes it's, um, just a Google search. I'm also on, you know, various directories psychology today. Mental health match, um, a new directory called find empathy, which is just for health psychology, um, providers.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah. Awesome. Cool. And, um, so tell me a little bit about the type of clients that you see in private.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: Yeah. So I primarily work with people who have either some sort of chronic pain condition or, um, or a chronic illness or an acute illness that they're, they're managing. So lots of various types of chronic pain.
Um, I've recently been seeing a lot of [00:03:00] people who have. Then diagnosed with cancer or who are, you know, working through the process of chemotherapy or who have finally gotten to the point where they're like, yes, I'm cancer-free and now what do I do? I've just spent the past nine months to a year of my life, focusing on fighting this horrible illness.
And now. But, you know, how do I get back into my life as normal? What is normal? Um, so, so that's a little subset of the type of people that I see, but really most of my work is with chronic pain. I've been working with people who have chronic pain for gosh. Well, over 10 years now, I used to be the, um, primary pain psychologist at the Atlanta VA medical center.
And so that's what I did all day every day. Um, and it's really just people who want to live their life. As well as they can with the illness or with the pain, you know, people who just need a little bit of an extra, extra bit of support as they're dealing with the ways in which, you know, [00:04:00] illness can affect the, your whole life.
And I think most people don't really think about the fact that when you're living with pain or illness, it does affect your whole life. Yeah. Yeah.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: It really does. Why do you find. What do you, is there something you tend to help people navigate more often?
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: I mean, I think it really varies. I think a big common theme that I see with people is, you know, a change in how they see themselves.
You know, there's a lot of, um, and it's easy to understand that there's a lot of focus on like, well, that was me before I had this condition, or that was me before the pain took control of my life or became a part of my life. And the me, I see now as this completely different person who can't do a lot of the things I used to be able to do, you know, I can't run the way I used to, or I can't work as long as I used to.
Um, yeah. You know, I just, I don't know what that means about me as a person, right. When you're not able to do the things that you [00:05:00] enjoy and that gives your life, meaning it really can make you start to question, you know, well, what do I do now? And so a big part of what I spend my time and energy with my clients working on is okay.
Yeah, there probably are some changes in your life because of your illness. How can we figure out the parts of your life that really are meaningful to you that make you who you are and find another one. To and have those things as an active part of your life to still be something that defines you, even if we have to kind of figure out a new way.
Right. So, um, this, the way I'm describing this might be a little bit confusing, but you know, I've had lots of people who will say, well, I used to be really involved in an exercise, but I can't run anymore. Okay. Well, what is it about exercise that, that you loved? Is it the actual. Physicality of it. Is it being outdoors?
You know, what is it that you miss? And can we find another way to bring some of that back? Even [00:06:00] if it doesn't look at all the same as you thought it was going to, um, and getting to a point where maybe having some is better than, than missing all of it, right? Yeah. It sounds
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: like a lot of values
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: work. Lots of values work.
It's impossible to, to not do this without incorporating some values. You know, I've got, I've got lots of people who just want to spend more time with their family. And maybe the way that they spent time with their family before was, was very physically active. And we have to find new ways to spend time with family so they can still have that connection still have that be a part of their life, even if it, the way in which they do it looks different.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah, it sounds like you're taking an outcome of what they're used to getting a certain outcome from the things that they love and you're figuring out what the process looks like. So how can we still get you engaged in that process? Even if the outcome looks
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: different? Exactly. How do we kind of get that underlying need that you're missing?
So [00:07:00] at the end of the day, when you lay your head down, you can still feel like there's a semblance of you that is still there, and that is still you. Um, so that's a lot of what I do with people. The other part has to do with like, okay, when your mind is giving you all kinds of unhelpful thoughts about.
You know how your illness is affecting your life. Let's, let's see if we can work on that so that it doesn't necessarily lead to as much depression or as much anxiety, because that can really not only make you miserable emotionally, and nobody wants to feel that way. But what a lot of people don't realize that how can actually make the physical symptoms of the pain or the physical symptoms of the.
You know, amplified, and then it just becomes this nasty vicious cycle that can be really hard to get out of. And so we focus on how do we get out of that vicious cycle? Yeah.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: One of the things that I talk a lot about with clients is the fact that physical pain and emotional pain are felt in the same neural pathways in the brain.
Can you tell me some of the research or the science behind. The things that you have [00:08:00] found helpful for clients to know.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: Yeah. So I think it kind of goes back to that. Like, people just don't realize that when we're talking about like, oh yeah. When you're not feeling well, emotionally, it makes the pain worse.
Like I think some people can, can, can you kind of accept that relationship? Conceptually, but physiologically, there actually is a relationship there. So the research shows that when we experience any kind of stressor or any kind of strong negative experience, including pain, especially pain, um, as well as other physical symptoms, if you don't activate the part of the brain that then causes this whole cascade of neurochemicals, um, That ultimately end up amplifying those pain messages or those physical messages.
And then, you know, when you throw in the ways in which the physical symptoms affect your quality of life, well then of course, you're going to feel depressed. Of course you're going to feel anxious. Um, and so there's a lot of good research that supports that. Usually when I work with clients, we'll spend a whole session just talking [00:09:00] about.
How, how those connections actually look in the body and in the brain and what that actually ends up looking like when we apply it to their life. So, you know, what are the things that stress you out or what are the things that go through your mind and your body when you're having a bad pain day and, okay, great.
Like when that happens, it's possible that the stress center part of your brain is being activated. What do you notice happening physically in your body? And so we go through a whole process of. Tying it together so that people can really start to recognize, okay, I'm not crazy. This really is happening.
There's really a reason for this and it's not working. So we got to do something different. Yeah.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: And it sounds like the tying it together, bringing awareness to what's happening is most important. Um, and I also, I always want to be really careful or make sure that I'm, um, you know, getting across to people.
We don't choose how we feel. We can make different [00:10:00] choices and we can do certain things, but it's not about choosing so yeah. What can you speak to that, to that point? Yeah, so I,
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: I always telling people, we don't necessarily choose how we feel. The way we feel is often. A by-product of the situation or a by-product of the thoughts that our mind gives us about that situation.
And quite frankly, I don't necessarily believe that we, we choose our thoughts, either things pop into our heads and we get all this chatter. I mean, I don't know about you, but my mind is. All the time. And some of what my mind gives me is really helpful. And some of what my mind gives me is not, you know, it can lead me down little pathways in my mind.
Um, and so when my clients experienced some of these more unhelpful thoughts that their minds give them, you know, what I want to teach people is that, you know, we can learn to recognize those thoughts and we can learn to tell. Either learn new things to tell ourselves or new ways to respond to those thoughts so that hopefully [00:11:00] we don't end up with the same cascade of emotions and physical changes and things that come after.
But like, we don't really control that. It's not your fault when those things pop in your head. It's not your fault when you feel low or depressed because of everything that's going on around you. Like it's a completely understandable response to the situation. And it's not getting you where you want to be.
So how can we change? How you respond, how can we change your actions in these situations? Um, so that you can be closer to how you want to be in your life and how you want to feel, um, emotionally, does that make sense? Oh,
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: perfect sense. Yeah. And. Piece of why it's so important that we're always talking about, it's not your fault is because of it.
If you are blaming yourself, criticizing yourself, then we can't actually gain the appropriate awareness that we need in order to change. You are so
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: right. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's, and it's not your fault. Like it's just art. The way I [00:12:00] think our brains are often designed is we're supposed to paying attention to the things that aren't going, right.
We're supposed to pay attention to the negative. It's adaptive, you know, the reason. So many of us kind of gravitate toward that type of thinking is because once upon a time paying attention to the things that didn't go, right, allowed us to plan for the future and plan for making it go better in the future.
The problem is that worked when our problems were more simple and that. Not the way it works when we're talking about chronic illness and things that you didn't ask for or cause it, it doesn't apply here.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: I love that. Yeah, it does it when things were simpler, you were scared of the tiger and that was that like, it was, it was real, no one blamed you for being scared of it.
Right. And now our bodies, you know, they make those same kind of, um, uh, chemical responses as if the tiger is right there. But. But wait, it's not. And so therefore it's my fault that I feel this way. And
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: that's [00:13:00] just not the case. No, it's, it's a by-product of how we're hardwired that for some reason has not gone away and it's creating more problems than, than serving us at.
Yeah.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Um, what drew you to working with this population?
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: That's um, that's a really good question. So, um, I actually grew up in a family where several of us experienced chronic pain and illness. So my mom and my sister and myself actually all have autoimmune conditions. You know, various degrees of chronic pain associated with them and various physical challenges associated with it.
And actually my brother did too, but he outgrew it. Um, but anyway, growing up, I was really kind of taken by the fact that all of us seem to kind of have a different approach to dealing with what we were going through. Um, and specifically in terms of just kind of how to, how we managed the impact of it.
Um, and so I was really interested in like, wow, we've [00:14:00] all got really similar things going on, but. All of us are handling it very differently. And so I learned a lot about the fact that like pain and illness can look totally different, um, from person to person and that there isn't necessarily a one size fits all experience or way to approach it.
But I also kind of realized that there wasn't a lot of support for people going through this. So we're talking, you know, 20, 30 years ago. And I remember specifically, um, trying to find some, some. And then from the mental health side, for somebody who was kind of trying to navigate how pain and illness was affecting them.
And, um, there wasn't anybody, there, there were good therapists to deal with depression and anxiety and stress, but nobody who really understood the relationship between physical illness and emotional, um, health. And I really think you need somebody who understands that connection. Both from a biological and scientific perspective, but [00:15:00] also in terms of how that affects the whole person.
Um, and so anyway, long story to say, I have a very personal connection to it. And so. Kind of made it my mission to be like, somebody needs to do this work. Um, and so I purposefully pursued my graduate education with, with that in mind. Um, I was kind of one of the weird ones who was like, Nope, this is exactly what I'm going to do.
I purposely sought out, um, a training program in health psychology because that's what we do. Um, and, and I think that personal connection has kept. Passionate about it.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah. Yay. You, it sounds like you've used your own life experiences to, um, inform your work and you've also gone and gotten the background.
That's important. The training that's important to go along with that.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: Yeah. And I think, and I, I think that's a really good point is that for me, I really think that. It's kind of a unique perspective because I've got my personal experience from myself, [00:16:00] as well as the experiences watching my family and that professional experience.
And I try to infuse all of that as well as what I've learned from, you know, the thousands of patients I've worked with now. And I recognize that. Even with all of those experiences. Every time I sit with somebody I'm learning something new, like the way it affects them is going to be different than how it affected me or how it affected my sister or how it affected the client I saw last Tuesday.
Right. And so I think that's important to keep in mind is that there is a level of understanding. And I don't think that because I have that connection to it, that I know everything about everybody's experience.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: I'm sure that leaves a lot of room for your clients to feel seen and heard. And also not having to necessarily explain every little bit of what's going
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: on.
Right. I that's my hope. I hope that we can like shorthand things like medications and symptoms and, you know, treatment recommendations. And we can share that common language. [00:17:00] Because they have learned a lot about the medical side of things. And I want them to feel safe to say, this is how I'm feeling about X, Y, and Z, and be able to normalize some of that.
Yeah.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: What are some of your favorite moments with clients?
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: Oh gosh. Um, this is gonna sound kind of weird. Um, but my favorite moments are actually. The termination session or like the final session that you do with people. So, because so often when my clients come in at the start of therapy, you know, they're feeling like their pain or their illness is just completely upended their life.
And they're not able to do the things that they want to do, but by the end of treatment, people have usually found new ways to connect with, with their values, like we were talking about before or their sense of their self. And you know, what. Want their life to be about if we gained some sense of normal.
And so often I hear people say like, I feel so much more like me. It's not a hundred percent who I used to be, but I feel so much more like myself or, you know, I hear this all the time and my pain is not gone. [00:18:00] It's not controlling everything the way it used to. It's still there, but I feel like I'm more in control.
And so being able to see somebody feel like they have regained that sense of control, they've regained that sense of self and purpose. It's just, it's, it's a really special thing. Like, um, how, like how can you not love that, right?
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah. To see that transformation and to see someone go from feeling so incapable to.
So capable that they don't need us anymore.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: Right. Which is hard. Right. You know, it's, it's kind of weird to build a relationship with somebody and it's a one-sided relationship. Um, but you know that going out and you know, that you're there to serve them and get, help them get to a place that they want to be.
And then if you do your job well, they won't need you anymore.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. How often, or how long do clients typically see you for? Oh, it really depends.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: So, and it depends, it depends on. The reason why I'm [00:19:00] seeing them and also like the approach we take. So I tend to go in two different routes. So I will either do a very values based, um, intervention called acceptance and commitment therapy.
Um, or sometimes I go like straight up CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy, which is a similar but different approach. And so it just really depends, I would say on average, I'm going to say 12 sessions. Um, but that's, it really is a range like 12 to 24, I think would be probably a more accurate average.
And then I've had some people that, you know, I saw for years because. You know, life kept giving them new challenges and those new challenges would exacerbate their illness. And we just worked through them together. So it's very hard to pinpoint, but I think 12 to 24 is probably a good, a safe, a safe bet.
Yeah,
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: that sounds about right. And, um, from, from my experience as well. So do you know. [00:20:00] Do you find that people come in with a specific, like, I need help with this and they leave with something different? Or what does that usually look
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: like for you? Sometimes they come in with, I need help with my sleep or I need help with my chronic pain or, and they, and then therapy takes a turn and we end up working one, um, some underlying anxiety or things like that.
Um, I try really hard. So I, I usually meet with people on the phone for like a quick 20 minute free console before I'll schedule them for a first, a full appointment. And during that like free console call, um, we try to get a feel for like, are we going to be right for each other? So if you're somebody who has pain, but your primary concern is really a trauma that you suffered.
That may, that may certainly make it much harder to manage the pain because we know that the physical symptoms and the emotional experience of [00:21:00] trauma can, can cause that vicious cycle to just keep turning. That said I'm not a trauma therapist. And I would so much rather somebody see a trauma therapist and get that expert, um, treatment that they need and see me.
And so we try to weed that out at the beginning. And so I think that initial call helps. Um, helps make sure that like I'm a good fit and that we're, we're focusing on, on, on managing the health and illness, but that's not always the only thing we talk about, you know, cause health and illness does affect, you know, your relationships with family and your work and, um, various other aspects of your life.
So we touch on all those things for sure. And um, sometimes we end up doing a lot more relationship work that said if it's something that is very clearly up to. Needing of its own specialty. Um, we try to address that.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah. It's so bi-directional, I mean, if your pain is so bad, if it ruins your work or your [00:22:00] relationships, um, and we can man learn to manage that one way or another, those things will improve, but vice versa, you know, if your relationships start improving, your pain can also improve sometimes.
Right.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: And it doesn't necessarily mean that the pain or the illness is going to go away. Of course not. Right. Because there's a biological component. And so managing, you know, having your relationship go better, isn't going to. Magically cure the problem. I want to make that clear. Cause I think sometimes people get that message.
However, if your relationships are less stressful and less tense, you're not necessarily going to have that activation of the stress center as frequently. And so you're not going to have that fueling of the vicious cycle and the cascade of chemicals that makes the pain worse. So, so that is kind of one way that things can be better managed.
Yeah.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Perfectly explained. Thank you for, for sharing that, that piece. Um, Yeah. So it sounds like, um, a lot of your work is around helping people manage relationships, better managing even their relationship with [00:23:00] themselves a little bit better. Absolutely. Um, and what would you say is kind of your, you talked a little bit about you practice from act and you practice from cognitive behavioral therapy.
Um, when you see, when it comes to goal setting, What is your approach there or how do you, how do you navigate goal-setting with.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: Yeah, I think that's such an important question. Um, and I think that maybe the way I think about it is a little bit different than some people, you know, I think it's important to have goals in therapy.
We need to have things we know we're working toward that said, I think it can be really tricky with, um, people who are also trying to manage their illness and their pain. And I think in our kind of Western culture, Constantly received this message that like our worth is determined by whether we need our goals.
And so the last thing I, or how hard we work or how productive we are. And so the last thing I want to do is create a, [00:24:00] a added stressor in the form of a therapy goal. So for me, our goals need to be aligned with what do you want your life to be about? Like, what do you hope life looks like at the end of this?
It's more of that kind of values approach. Um, rather than like, yeah, it would be lovely if, if one of your goals is to be more active. That's great. And we should think about what that looks like, but we also need to think about the why, why do you want to be more active and how do we do that with.
Overdoing. It honestly, there's a lot of that.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: So it sounds like there's not a whole lot of. I do this two times a week to achieve this outcome at the
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: end. Well, I don't know that I would go that far sometimes. Um, I do get prescriptive with something, so I incorporate a lot of relaxation training. Um, and sometimes some mindfulness work into.
Um, my work with clients and for anybody who doesn't know what that [00:25:00] is, you know, the relaxation training can often look like deep breathing exercises or doing some kind of mental imagery with some, some guidance in order to. To create changes in the body. The whole point of that is to help your muscles release tension and your heart rate to slow down and to help slow down that whole stress system that can make things worse.
Um, so, so when we do that kind of work, I will say, yeah, I want you to practice this every day, or I want you to practice this a couple of times a week, and let's talk about what feels reasonable for you in terms of how often you practice, um, So, so that's not to say that I won't give homework. I definitely give homework.
And the point of that is to help create the changes we're talking about. But when we're talking about like big term goals, I definitely don't want people to feel that there's pressure to, to do one more thing.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah, I love that last part. I think that's, that's the piece that, um, goals, [00:26:00] because of, like you mentioned earlier with society and the way there is this pressure to accomplish and achieve and produce.
And so even when we're careful, I think sometimes it's, it's hard for clients to not take what we're encouraging and then, and then not put that pressure on themselves. So I do a lot of work on that way in that way, too. It's values and it's not about the outcome, but here is what's going to help you. To living this life in a way that you have, you have discovered on your own together with that in sessions, this is how you
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: want to live.
Exactly, exactly. And I think it's so important also to help people. Yah. You know, I don't know if you see this and I guess this is just my little tangent on my soap box that I get on. But like, I think so often people, when they're trying to do all the things with their pain and with their illness, they end up accidentally overdoing it.
You know, it's not that that's happening on purpose. You're just trying to take advantage of the good day or get through all the things because it's so important, you have to get through them. And then what ends up happening [00:27:00] is you do too much and you spend the next several. I w I hear a lot of my clients saying, paying the price.
You know, I spent the rest of the weekend on the couch or in bed, and then I missed out on all this other stuff I wanted to do. Um, And, you know, I think that's bad enough when you're feeling physically crappy when you're in that place of having overdone it. But then that's when the depression and those kind of beating up yourself and wishing you hadn't done it that way.
All of that kind of kicks in, um, as you're taking that time. And so we want to, I work a lot with people on finding a better way to balance that, um, and helping them recognize it's not their fault that they've fallen into that pattern that they're just trying to do the best they can. And there may be another strategy that they didn't realize, and we could figure that out together.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah. Yeah. It's an important piece. That is, I think one of the most common things being able to, um, doing nothing because you're in so much pain and then having a good day and doing everything and. [00:28:00] And a crash. And one of the things about acceptance commitment therapy is like, we're always just going with the flow and kind of going with what, um, just kind of moving with the waves, if you will, to just further like, make sure the language here is like, it's not your fault.
Like even if you do overdo it.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: This is
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: why acceptance is so important and also so tricky because it can also lead us down a path of depression, like, okay, if nothing I do works, then why even try. But again, the trying is not about changing the outcome. It's about living life every day in a way that either gets you connected with other people or nature, or I find that the heart of my work, it's almost always about connecting.
In one way or connecting to yourself deeper.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: Yeah. Yeah. I think that, I think, especially this idea of like connecting to yourself, connecting to kind of like what you want to stand for. So as long [00:29:00] as you kind of, can, I always say this to my clients, as long as you can lay your head down at night and feel like you did something that was aligned with kind of what you want to stand for, who you are, who, what your values are.
Then then you know that then we're doing that work together. Like it may not always look exactly the way you want it to, it may not even be as successful as you wanted it to be, but the effort was there. It's about the effort. Um, and so when we're, you know, uh, I think the other thing about setting goals is they have to be meaningful.
They have to be adaptive. They can't just be goals for the sake of somebody said this was good for me. They have to be personal. Yeah.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah, that's incredibly important. Um, it has to, yeah, that goes back to finding your, why, like you were talking about earlier, it's the only way we'll sustain any of these changes.
Exactly, exactly. Even, um, one of the things that I will often tell clients when they're taking either maybe a lot of supplements on top of their medication, um, [00:30:00] things that are maybe more in that like natural world is, or even your pharmaceuticals too. They make sure you know why you're taking this? Oh yeah.
Just taking it because some practitioner told you that this is going to help this. Like, if I'm taking magnesium, why am I taking magnesium? What is, what systems in my body does this help? And if I'm taking Lexapro, then why am I taking Lexapro? What, what is this
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: helping?
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah, I think that's so, so important.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: Yeah. I mean, I'm so big on, um, a lot of the stuff I do with my clients is like, let's figure out if the things you're doing to kind of manage. Your life, whether that be your emotions or your relationship or your illness, let's make sure it's working, right. Because if it's not working, then in some ways you're kind of wasting that precious energy.
And when you've got pain or illness, your energy is a limited and precious resource to begin with. Right. There's not a lot to go around. And so if some of that energy is going toward things that. You were told to do or that you tried, but that just aren't working. [00:31:00] Maybe we can let that go and rechannel that energy into stuff you actually care about or actually does work.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah. Which will make you feel better in the long run anyway. Right. I love that. Well, if you could give just one piece of advice, um, work-life balance or relationship advice, what's, what's one thing that you would want people to kind of leave with.
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: So I always struggle with like the work-life balance thing.
I think the best advice is kind of not advice, which is that it's easier said than done, like this idea of being able to balance it all may not always be possible. And I'm only partially kidding. Um, I think that living with a chronic condition is full of good days and bad days. Um, it's, it is a rollercoaster and there are a lot of ups and downs and it's important and okay.
To acknowledge that both are part of that process. Um, and I firmly believe it kind of was what I was saying before. We've got a finite amount of energy and you can not spread it like peanut butter. You can not give all [00:32:00] of it equally to all things. And so for me, and what I tell my clients, because I really try to practice what I preach is.
We have to decide on a few things that really matter, and that really make us feel fulfilled and true to ourselves. And, you know, whatever those personal values and goals might be. And then when that's what you put your energy into, that's your, how you know that you're kind of using your energy wisely, all the other stuff that we think we're supposed to be doing, or the pressure that we get to be doing other things from family or society or wherever it comes from, it doesn't really matter if it doesn't fit with those few things.
And. You know, you're not always going to be a hundred percent successful and there may be days where pressure gets the best of you or one aspect of your life takes more energy than other aspects. But I think if you kind of keep that in mind as your kind of, um, guide, if you will, it can go far. Um, I really believe that, and I, I encourage that for my clients and I [00:33:00] encourage that for myself as well.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Ah, I love that analogy. You can't spread your energy to everything like peanut
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: butter.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: That's just such a good way of putting
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: it. I mean, it'd be great if we could write that, it just doesn't seem to work.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Honestly. I think it's a lie that's told to all of us, even if you don't have a chronic illness, I just think that if you have a chronic illness, it affects us more physically, but
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: I think it's a lie for everyone.
Oh, I 100%. And I think, um, I, I apologize if I'm speaking too freely here, but I think it's true for everyone. And I think it's especially true for women.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah, no, it's
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: um, that is, that's a big piece.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Or we could probably go into a whole other episode about how that, how that affects.
Um, that's a huge piece that I work on with clients as well. So, well, thank you so much for all of that. It sounds like we do a lot of the same stuff and I'm. To just meet you and know [00:34:00] that you're here
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: in Georgia. Where, where are you looking at it again? So, um, my practice is based out of Brookhaven online, but I'm completely tele-health at this point.
And so, um, in some ways it's been wonderful because. You know, if people are not having their best day physically, we do the session from bed. Is it ideal? No, but we still can do some work there. Um, and it means that you don't have to sit in the car for hours and potentially exacerbate the stress and the pain.
And so it's worked out well. Yeah,
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: that's the beauty of tele-health. Incredibly convenient. Um, yeah. Were you doing telehealth before the pandemic? So I was because I was actually
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: with the VA before the pandemic. And so the VA had been doing a lot of tele-health out to kind of more rural areas that we served and it was just the easiest way to get those services to people that were two hours away.
Um, so I had, and I had kind of bought into the idea of telehealth way before everybody had. [00:35:00] Um, so it was a natural transition for me. That's
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: I felt the same way. My I'm actually a clinical rehabilitation counselor. Okay. So same thing like in the VA, uh, lots of phones, not necessarily zoom, but, um, lots of phone sessions, you know, with the rural clients.
And, um, I think. Yeah. We just always had an openness to, to tele-health and, and a bit of a different
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: way the environment kind of forces it, but it was, um, it was nice to have had that experience. I kind of felt ahead of the curve. It was, yeah. Yeah.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: There wasn't as much of a learning curve for sure. Um, good.
Anything else that comes
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: to mind? No, I mean, I think the only other thing I would say is that I, I believe that there's still a lot. Stigmatization about seeing a, um, a therapist when, for, for issues related to physical health. And when I say stigma, I mean, like, I think a lot of people still get the message that they're being [00:36:00] sent to see a therapist or sent to see a psychologist because it's all in their head.
Um, and, and that's just not true. You know, the first thing I tell all of my clients is I don't think it's in your head. I don't think you're making it up. And it really is affecting all of these other areas of your life and it probably is affecting your emotional health. And, and then we have that conversation about the cycle and, you know, the fact that we can work on all of those things and in better managing all of the other things, it may actually help you manage your physical condition a little bit better too.
So I don't think you're crazy. And I think I can stop. I love that. How you put that, where can people find you? Um, so my practice is called beyond the body health psychology services. My website is www dot beyond the body psych. So P S Y C h.com or just Google Dr. Jennifer Steiner. And I'm also on Facebook and Instagram.[00:37:00]
Cool. What are your handles there? Um, my Facebook handle is Dr. Jennifer Steiner, um, as well as Instagram, all one word Dr. Jennifer Steiner. And you can look me up on LinkedIn. I believe it's Jennifer Steiner, PhD, a B P P. Awesome.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Jennifer. It was so nice to meet you and talk to you
Jennifer Steiner, PhD ABPP: today.
It was so nice to talk with you. I really enjoyed it.
Destiny Winters APC NCC CRC: Awesome. Cool. Thank you. Thanks. Buh-bye.
Episode Summary and Notes
We do not choose our thoughts or feelings, but we can choose a meaningful life
“The problem is that worked when our problems were more simple and that. Not the way it works when we're talking about chronic illness and things that you didn't ask for or cause it, it doesn't apply here.”
Dr. Jennifer Steiner
Identity shifts, managing pain and illness, and cultivating resilience are all crucial aspects of navigating the complex journey of living with chronic conditions. Effective pain and illness management is essential not only for physical comfort but also for emotional well-being. Developing strategies to manage symptoms, reduce discomfort, and enhance overall quality of life is key to minimizing the negative effects of these conditions.
Cultivating resilience equips individuals with the tools to cope with setbacks, manage stress, and maintain a positive outlook, contributing to emotional well-being and overall life satisfaction.
Meet Dr. Jennifer Steiner:
Dr. Jennifer Steiner's journey into the realm of clinical health psychology has been one marked by dedication, compassion, and a profound commitment to helping others. As one of the very first board-certified clinical health psychologists in the state of Georgia, her influence and impact are palpable within the field.
Dr. Steiner earned her Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the prestigious Purdue University, specializing in health psychology.
Dr. Steiner's therapeutic support extends beyond the physical realm; she delves into the emotional and psychological intricacies that emerge when dealing with the profound impact of illness. From shifting self-perceptions to adapting to new roles and identities, her guidance serves as a beacon for those traversing this often uncharted terrain.
The Struggle of Shifting Identity:
Navigating identity shifts is not just about adapting to new circumstances; it involves a deep introspective journey to uncover the core values and passions that remain constant despite the changes. It's a process of self-discovery that empowers you to transcend limitations and forge a renewed connection with what truly matters to you.
Dr. Steiner shines a spotlight on a fundamental challenge faced by those living with chronic pain or illness—the profound alteration of self-identity. The life before the condition, the moments of freedom and vitality, can become distant memories, leaving a void filled with uncertainty. The activities that once defined an individual may now be out of reach, and the question of "Who am I now?" becomes a poignant refrain.
Dr. Steiner understands the emotional and psychological toll of this transformation.
Navigating a New Normal:
Discovering what holds deep meaning for you and integrating those elements into your life, even in the face of pain or illness, is a transformative process that can bring a renewed sense of purpose and fulfillment. When chronic pain or illness disrupts familiar routines and activities, it's an opportunity to explore and prioritize what truly resonates with your heart and soul.
For those burdened by chronic pain or illness, the concept of"normal" life can often seem elusive.
In the realm of chronic pain and illness, the mind can become a battleground, where unhelpful thoughts amplify the burden of physical discomfort. These thoughts, often fueled by fear, anxiety, or frustration, can cast a shadow over your well-being and exacerbate the experience of your condition.
Finding the delicate equilibrium between what truly matters and societal pressures can be challenging in a world brimming with demands and expectations.
In a society that often extols the virtues of multitasking and juggling countless responsibilities, Dr. Jennifer Steiner emphasizes the importance of honing in on what genuinely resonates with your heart and soul.
Listen to Dr. Jennifer’s interview with me, Destiny Davis, on Ep 10: We Don't Choose Our Thoughts or Feelings, But We Can Choose A Meaningful Life w/ Dr. Jennifer Steiner
Dr. Jennifer Steiner's journey into the realm of clinical health psychology has been one marked by dedication, compassion, and a profound commitment to helping others. As one of the very first board-certified clinical health psychologists in the state of Georgia, her influence and impact are palpable within the field.
Dr. Steiner earned her Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the prestigious Purdue University, specializing in health psychology.
Dr. Steiner's therapeutic support extends beyond the physical realm; she delves into the emotional and psychological intricacies that emerge when dealing with the profound impact of illness. From shifting self-perceptions to adapting to new roles and identities, her guidance serves as a beacon for those traversing this often uncharted terrain.
Connect with Dr. Jennifer:
Meet Destiny - The host of The Chronic Illness Therapist Podcast and a licensed mental health therapist in the states of Georgia and Florida. Destiny offers traditional 50-minute therapy sessions as well as therapy intensives and monthly online workshops for the chronic illness community