Navigating Chronic Illness and the Burden of Asking for Help w/ Taylor Marmol
Taylor's Research on Chronic Pain and Chronic Illness
Taylor goes on to discuss her research, a thesis focused on how individuals with chronic pain can manage and improve their daily lives. She has narrowed her study to the older adult population, highlighting their underrepresentation in research despite a high prevalence of chronic pain in this group. Her research explores factors like self-efficacy, community, religion, and spirituality as buffers against chronic pain. These are elements that participants in her study assess through questionnaires. She emphasizes two crucial insights from her research. Firstly, the importance of self-esteem and self-efficacy in coping with chronic pain, specifically the need to avoid feeling like a burden when relying on others for support. Secondly, Taylor highlights how having a spiritual connection or belief in a higher power can provide meaning and purpose in the face of chronic pain, making it easier to endure.
Navigating the Reciprocal Nature of Relationships
Here are some preliminary tips for fostering more reciprocal relationships when dealing with chronic illness:
Empathize and Put Yourself in Their Shoes Consider how you would want to help and communicate if roles were reversed. Be clear in your communication about your needs.
Open Dialogue Encourage open and honest conversations about expectations when offering or receiving help. Ask questions and express your feelings to minimize misunderstandings.
Reciprocity Without Strings Attached Recognize that reciprocal relationships shouldn't be transactional. Offering help and receiving help should be based on care and mutual support, not an expectation of immediate payback.
Unearthing the Roots of Feeling Like a Burden
In the second part of our podcast conversation with Taylor Marmol, we delve deeper into the concept of feeling like a burden, especially in the context of relationships and the challenges individuals with chronic illnesses face. Taylor provides valuable insights and guidance on addressing this feeling and fostering better communication with loved ones.
Clarity in Communication and the Fear of Imposing
Taylor emphasizes the importance of clear communication in relationships. She acknowledges that being clear about one's expectations is an act of love and respect towards the other person. However, she also acknowledges the fear of imposing on others, a sentiment often felt by individuals who naturally gravitate towards helping others.
She suggests that clear expectations should be accompanied by flexibility. It's essential to express your needs and be open to a discussion about whether the other person can fulfill those needs. This approach allows for healthier, more open communication without creating unnecessary burdens on either party.
Cultural and Family Dynamics in Communication
The conversation shifts to how cultural and family dynamics can influence an individual's ability to communicate their needs effectively. Taylor mentions that larger, close-knit families may have unspoken understandings, making it challenging for individuals from such backgrounds to express their needs in new relationships. On the other hand, those from blended or diverse family backgrounds may have acquired better communication skills from a young age due to varying family dynamics.
Taylor offers practical tips for individuals looking to improve their communication and address the feeling of being a burden
Clear Expectations Communicate your needs and expectations clearly, ensuring that your language is straightforward and unambiguous.
Embrace Messiness Understand that open communication may not always be perfect. Embrace the learning process, and don't be discouraged by initial challenges.
Practice Communication is a skill that improves with practice. Be patient with yourself and your partner as you navigate these conversations.
Examine the Roots For individuals struggling with feeling like a burden, therapy can be a valuable resource. It helps explore when this narrative began and what societal or personal factors contributed to it.
Consider Childhood Influences Reflect on your experiences during childhood, especially in school or family settings. Explore how those experiences shaped your feelings about needing accommodations or expressing your needs.
Managing Body Limitations and Grief
Taylor talks about the challenges of managing chronic illness, which often involves dealing with fluctuating energy levels and limitations. She describes the grief cycle that comes with constantly adjusting to the changing limitations of one's body. This grief can be exhausting and challenging to navigate, especially when it affects communication with partners who may not fully understand the inconsistency.
Applying Menstrual Cycle Phases to Understanding Energy Levels
The conversation references the menstrual cycle as a metaphor for understanding energy levels. Just as women experience different levels of physical energy throughout their menstrual cycle, individuals with chronic illnesses may go through phases of high and low energy. Recognizing these fluctuations can help in planning activities and self-care.
The Concept of "Spoon Theory"
The concept of "Spoon Theory" is briefly mentioned, which involves visualizing daily energy as a finite number of spoons. Each task consumes a certain number of spoons, and on low-energy days, it's essential to prioritize tasks and ensure that self-care remains a top priority.
Prioritizing Self-Care as an Act of Self-Worship
Taylor shares how her counselor encouraged her to view self-care, including sleep and basic activities like eating breakfast, as a form of self-worship. This perspective helped her recognize the importance of taking care of herself, particularly given her chronic pain condition.
Navigating Mixed Emotions with Achievements and Chronic Illness
Taylor touches on the complex emotions that can arise when achieving significant life milestones while dealing with chronic illness. She uses her recent marriage as an example, highlighting the simultaneous joy and grief that can accompany such achievements. It's essential to acknowledge and process these mixed emotions rather than suppressing them.
Encouraging Clients to Process Emotions
Taylor explains that helping clients navigate these emotions involves encouraging them to process their feelings of grief and loss while celebrating their achievements. It's crucial to acknowledge that it's normal to have conflicting emotions and that self-compassion is key.
Values and the Enneagram
The conversation concludes with a discussion on the importance of clarifying one's values and motivations. Taylor recommends the Enneagram as a helpful tool for self-discovery, as it can provide insights into core values and priorities.
In conclusion
Taylor's insights shed light on the challenges faced by individuals with chronic illness, particularly the struggle to ask for help without feeling like a burden. Her research offers valuable perspectives on how self-efficacy and spirituality can play significant roles in coping with chronic pain. Moreover, the conversation underscores the importance of open communication and empathy in building more supportive and reciprocal relationships.
Disclaimer: Everything we discuss here is just meant to be general education and information. It's not intended as personal mental health or medical advice. If you have any questions related to your unique circumstances, please contact a licensed therapist or medical professional in your state of residence.
Destiny Davis, LPC CRC, is solely responsible for the content of this article. The views expressed herein may or may not necessarily reflect the opinions of the guest.
The content in this blog post comes directly from a real, human interview between Destiny and her guest on The Chronic Illness Therapist Podcast. This written version was formatted using AI. Listen to the full episode to hear the actual conversation.
Listen to my full conversation with Taylor Marmol on Ep 21: Enneagram 2s, this one’s for you: Feeling like a burden while living with a chronic illness w/ Taylor Marmol
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Episode transcribed with AI and may contain errors that are not representative of the actual word or meaning of the sentence.
So why don't you start with a little bit about you, where you're practicing, where you're at in school, all of that good stuff.
Okay. I am Taylor Marmol. I am an intern at the Richmont Trauma Center and I am in my third year of my cmhc, so mental health counseling, uh, master's program.
And that is, Mont Graduate University. So I have been an intern at the trauma center since May of last year, and then I finished my internship in May this year. Um, and at the trauma center, it's a private practice. That is a trauma informed private practice. So every clinician there has special training.
It sees every client through a trauma lens, but we also partner with different organizations throughout the city who serve, um, different types of populations, so underserved communities. Um, people just with less access to mental health. And we go to those sites to provide counseling as well.
And you particularly specialize in chronic illness. How do you market that? Or, um, is that kind of, is Richmont known for that as well, or you kind of do that on your own? Yeah. Tell me a little bit about that.
Yeah, so Richmont isn't known for that. Um, all the clinicians really. Market themselves, however they see fit.
But we are known for being a great, uh, trauma informed practice. So most people come to the trauma center because they want to work on trauma. Um, as far as me, uh, I. I actually haven't really marketed myself outside of saying like on my, uh, page that I work with chronic pain and chronic illness. Um, and it's just kind of interesting how clients just find you there is like a network and they find you.
So that's really where my interest is. That's what my research has been in through, um, through my master's program. So, Yeah.
Yeah. So can you tell me a little bit about either yeah. Your research or maybe just an interest that you have recently about chronic illness and the clients you're working with?
Yeah. Um, so first my research, um, I'm trying to finish a thesis. So, uh, I started with this idea of how do people with chronic pain really. Help themselves. How, what are the different things that they can use to kind of get through the day, get through their daily lives? Um, and I narrowed that down to wanting to work with the older adult population, um, particularly because they are understudied, um, in almost every aspect.
And, uh, it's a crazy high percentage of the older adult population that experiences chronic pain. So my, um, kind of buffers, as I named them, ended up being self-efficacy, community, religion, and spirituality. Um, And I had several, uh, questionnaires that the participants would fill out. And then right now I'm in the process of like compiling the data to figure out which one, you know, really contributes to being able to mediate the pain that you're feeling or just help you get through it.
Um, so it's an IRB approved study and I'm just waiting to kind of compile the data. Um, yeah. Did I answer the question ?
Yeah. Well, I know you haven't compiled the data yet, but what's been one of the most interesting things, either that you've learned or just like an insight you've gained from doing this research?
I think two things. The first is, uh, how important self-esteem and self-efficacy is around chronic pain, the feeling that you are not a burden. Um, really plays a big role in this and how you, how you relate to your pain, um, which can, can be really hard when at times you do really need to rely on somebody to take care of you.
Um, so it's a big mindset shift of saying, saying, yes, I might need to rely on somebody, but I am not a burden. Um, that's one thing that I've really noticed. And another one that's interesting to me is just how having any kind of spirituality, spiritual connection, uh, believing in some kind of higher power, uh, makes it easier to bear all of this.
Yeah. Why
do you personally think that is not even from like the re Yeah, but just personally, why do you think that is?
I think it helps someone feel not so alone and maybe like there could be meaning to why, why you feel this way. Um, I know for me personally, having a higher power. Lets me feel like, okay, how can I use this pain?
I already have it, so how can I use it to like find meaning and find purpose in my life? Um, and that would be really hard if I didn't have, um, something that I believed in that was just bigger than myself. Yeah.
It kind of lets you put some of the responsibility as well. Not the, that's probably the wrong word, but, um, maybe that it feels like you're not so alone or you're able to share the burden with something that isn't just, it's not all on your shoulders.
Correct. Yeah, definitely.
That makes a lot of sense.
And as far as feeling like a burden, um, I really love that you said there's this. Thing that you have to grapple with where you do have to rely on other people and that kind of gives people this, it's like, see, so like I am a burden. But I think it just speaks so much more to the fact that we live so.
Hyper independently in this classroom.
Yeah, it's a real tension to hold, um, especially in our Western culture, like you're saying, it is praised to be independent all the time. Um, I don't need anyone. I don't need anyone's money, anyone's time, anyone's feelings. I'm all on my own. And then you throw something like chronic illness.
Chronic pain into the picture, and that all goes out the window. Um, So it's coming to terms with the fact that A, I'm gonna be different than what culture expects me to be, and I might even be different than what my original values are. Uh, for example, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Enneagram, but I'm a two on the Enneagram, which is a natural helper.
Um, so at first I just felt very uncomfortable with people helping me. I didn't know how to identify my needs, and when someone tried to help me, I was like, no, no, no. Let me help you. Um, And that's just something you gotta really work through personally to be able to be helped and loved on by somebody else when you're really feeling sick.
Yeah. It's like
you're, even when I'm allowing you to help me, there's still this, um, well, let me like, help you, help me. I need to make sure you have all the right things. , yes. Cure Enneagram two
over here. Through and through . Yes.
Yes. Yeah. When you said. When you first mentioned like feeling like a burden, it, I actually wonder if twos just feel that so, so much more.
I think. I think we all feel it when we have a chronic illness, but. I think we feel it like real, that's one of our biggest things, I think.
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I think that's definitely like a core, a core fear. Like if we are just existing, that's not good enough. Um, we always have to be doing something aka helping others, providing some sort of, Help or resource to another person.
So when someone else wants to do that to us, it's like, oh, I don't like that feeling. .
Yeah. It's like you're taking, you're taking my identity away.
Uhhuh. Uhhuh.
Yeah. I think it's, um, you know, in relationships it should be reciprocal, right? We should be giving and taking and, uh, but there still is just this kind of concept of.
Going back to hyper independence, um, just as our society as well, not just with Engram twos, but when you, when you take, there's this like tension inside of you that you now owe somebody something. Mm-hmm. . And so even, even if you want the help and you can accept the help, then there's this fear of like, but then I'm gonna, I'm gonna owe you in return.
Um, and I don't know when that's gonna come up. I don't know if I'm gonna have the energy to pay you back when the time comes up. I think it just speaks to the fact that there isn. There's a lot of unspoken rules and expectations, and there's so many different types of expectations. Um, because we are such a melting pot salad in this country that, you know, there's there not even, not even talking about ethnicity, but just regions.
Like there's so many different cultures and every culture has different unspoken expectations. So then you kinda put people together. And we don't really know how to verbalize these things because they're, they've always been unspoken. Now you're trying to figure out like, what do you, you know, what does it mean when I give to you or you give to me?
What are you gonna want back later? And we just dunno how to have those conversations.
Yeah. It's, that's something that I wish we could learn just as a society is how to talk about. Even if we just went as basic as like gift giving, um, what does it mean in certain cultures or regions to give a gift or to offer food, and what does it mean when you accept it and how do we properly.
Uh, respect that, but we, we literally don't talk about any of those expectations and then of course, we're breeding hurt by not talking about it. Um, so it's just generational hurt happening because nobody knows how to have the conversations.
Yeah. I'm wondering if we can even kind of try to come up with a few concrete tips.
Um, and it's okay if it takes a moment to think about it, but tips that people. Can think about when they're trying to have conversations that alleviate that feeling of I'm a burden, but still allow you to ask for help and to give help and to have this kind of reciprocal relationship. Yeah.
Well, the first thing that's coming to mind and is something that I regularly do is think about like putting myself in the other person's shoes, for example, if I was the one, if they were the one that was sick and needed help. How would I want to help them and how would I want them to tell me what they need?
Um, and for the most part, I would think, you know, I would want them to tell me what they need. Like, do they need food or medicine or do they need space or time together? Um, so when I get in that mindset, I can think for myself, okay, I want to be. That clear in my communication with the person that I love.
So I don't need them to read my mind. Um, I can just be clear and that is loving the other person by, by being clear about my expectations.
Yeah, I agree. And I think what comes up with that is a fear that if I'm clear with my expectations, one. Now this other person thinks they have to do it. And especially as a nanny room too, it's like we never wanna put somebody in that position.
Mm-hmm. . Um, but, uh, I think that the other piece that's important is, is so you're, you're clear with your expectations, but then there you have flexibility as well. So Right. Hearing what I need from you. Are you able to give me that? And if not, that's okay, but let's
just talk about it. Uhhuh Uhhuh. Yeah, and I think kind of debunking this myth in long-term relationships or marriage, that if you communicate what you need to your partner, that that somehow loses.
Its like sexiness or spontaneity. Um, I will hear couples say, well, I don't. I shouldn't have to tell him or her what I need. They should just know, and I've yet to figure out where that myth is coming from. But nobody is born with the ability to mind read, and it will just make your communication so much easier if you start being comfortable communicating what you need with that flexibility in there.
Yeah,
that makes me think about what we were saying earlier with like unspoken expectations. And I have thought about this a lot. Um, If you kind of look at families who maybe are a bit larger families and they grew up super close, um, they grew up with all of these family system dynamics, and so they're able to read each other's minds in a sense with their siblings and their parents.
Like they all know exactly what each other needs. And so then you meet your partner and you expect, like, you don't even know how to ask because you never had to growing up. Mm-hmm. . And it's just a skill. It's a skill that needs to be learned. And then you have somebody who grew up maybe with, uh, a family that was blended, they might actually have a lot better capability of having these conversations because at a young age they learned like, oh, there's, there's two, three different families meshing together and we don't know what each other needs.
So yeah, sometimes the cultural aspect. Can, can help or, or hurt in this, in this way?
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Uh, family structure really plays a role into it. And just, I, I guess if, like I was to think of another tip, it's just getting comfortable having these conversations by having them, like being okay if they don't go perfect.
Um, Like they're gonna be messy at first and that's okay. That's part of learning how to communicate with a partner.
Yeah. I feel like that would be the second tip. The first one is having very clear expectations and being clear in your language. And the second one is allowing things to be messy. Yeah, yeah.
It gets easier, it gets less messy the more you practice, but yeah, you don't just. You know, you don't walk onto a basketball court being able to shoot and get it in nothing but net right
away. Exactly. With anything else you need practice and people have a hard time relating that to communication with another person.
They think, well, I should just get it right on the first time and they should get it right on the first time when it's a skill that you learn and you gotta practice.
Yeah. What else comes to mind, um, regarding either communication or just that concept of feeling like a burden and how you help clients navigate that.
I think the sense of feeling like a burden, there is a lot of stuff buried underneath that. Um, so a really helpful thing that I would suggest doing with the counselor is to kind of dig up when did that narrative start? When did you start feeling like you were a burden? Um, Did that message come from other people at some point that you know, your illness was too much to handle?
Um, and kind of start there. Start figuring out when these false messages came into the client's life of feeling like they were a burden for simply having something wrong with them because for whatever reason, with a chronic illnesses and pain, it gets translated as a burden.
So what's happening in the translation that your sickness is, you know, not real enough or it's too long and annoying, um, that's making you feel like it's now a burden?
So it's something tied to maybe like the length of their diagnosis or the inconsistencies or something, but I just think it's, it's worthwhile to really dig underneath that, starting with the messaging of who kind of made you start to believe that and. Yeah.
And I love that, like all of those tips that you talked about so far, none of them talk about, you know, changing your beliefs.
Mm-hmm. , it's, this is, this is what acceptance work looks like. It's, you know, getting to the root of it, um, allowing for messiness and practice, um, kind of feeling the fear and doing it. Um, and then thinking back to your childhood, and that doesn't necessarily mean parents. It could, could be your school system, it could be, you know, these messages that you receive.
You've had these messages your whole life. Then you become an adult and people just expect you to kind of think differently or act differently. But you've got 18 plus years of now having to unle. Something that was just inherently a part of, of your brain and the way that your brain worked. So yeah, it's um, I think becoming aware of where this problem came from.
Uh, even if you can't figure out, like, cause I sometimes, you know, I go there with my clients and they're like, no. Like my parents never gave me, the school system was, had accommodate, like, you know, and they, they really can't figure it out. Um, And I think we could go into more of like the subtle, uh, environmental, societal things that pop up, but sometimes I feel like that doesn't even matter.
Like the context doesn't even matter. Can we just think about how you felt as a kid through school? Like, okay, you felt the support here, but what was like that other feeling that was accompanying you? When did you not feel okay? And when you didn't feel okay or you felt like you were too much, what did you do?
How does that relate to what you're doing now as an adult? Um, especially when it comes to your relationships and asking for help.
Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , and, you know, going along the content versus feeling, at what point did you start feeling like, If you did that, accommodations were less helpful and more like, I am the other, like I'm, I'm sticking out because I need to have accommodations that can bring about a lot of feelings of like, gosh, I'm.
A burden. I have to have all of these special things just to be a normal kid at school. Um, and it might be, you know, below the surface for a while until you get to adulthood and look back and think, man, I was like always missing big class because I had to go to my own special class. Um, just things like that.
Yeah,
absolutely.
So, What comes to mind next? Um, we had talked about this previously off air was a concept around choosing when to kind of push through things and when to let go. And we might, we could either tie this into communication cause I think it, it relates to that as well, when to keep going with a conversation or not.
But if anything else comes to mind, like work or school, I'm happy to talk about that. .
Yeah. This is another one of those parts of living this lifestyle that is messy. Um, I know that we can't sit here and be like, okay, here are steps one through 10 on how to know when to push through and when to not push through.
But the, the general sense that I was thinking the first time we talked about it is, There is a lot of grief associated with figuring out your body's limitations and. The constant change in your body's limitations. Sometimes you can feel so good and like I can finish all the reports and take on five new clients and I'm feeling so good.
And then the next week you're like, oh my God, one client and I'm done. So that, that grief cycle is really exhausting. and it is as associated with conversations, especially with partners when they're watching you and are very confused of like, what's going on? Things are so inconsistent and I don't understand cuz I'm not living in your body.
Um, and that's really hard for a person, especially when they're not yet able to verbalize what they're experiencing.
Yeah, it makes me think about, and I think I've talked about this on the podcast before, but, um, even women, uh, with menstrual cycles. We physically have less energy when we are on our period.
Um, your muscles and your at tendons are weaker physically, and a lot of, a lot of women will like get hurt in the gym during this week. Um, because they're like, well, I was able to lift this much last week. Why can't I lift it now? And then we physically have more energy and more strength when we're ovulating a couple weeks after, approximately a couple weeks after our period.
And then even the in between phases. So there's, there's actually four phases of your cycle. Um, that's how I conceptualize this cycle that you're talking about, because it gives me something to grasp onto mm-hmm. , even if it's not a hundred percent, or even if you don't have a regular period, you know, every 28 days.
Or, um, to kind of think about it in terms of I will cycle through lows and highs. What am I able to do when I'm on a low? Like, how much, how much can I do when I'm. And you can kind of, it's trial and error, but then ebbing and flowing your schedule and what you take on. You don't wanna always say, okay, I'm gonna take on the bare minimum, because then you kind of get, you can get depressed around that.
It's like, I can't do anything and I'm missing out on everything. But you also don't want to think that when you have these high weeks, Now you can always take on, you know, five extra clients and uh, and the extra projects. And, but yeah, when you're ovulating, it tends to be, when you're ovulating, that's when you feel that burst of energy and uh, it makes you feel like superwoman.
You're like, I can do anything. This is great. Mm-hmm. . And then you start winding down the next week, and then two weeks later you're like, I'm down and out. . Yeah,
it is. I like the cycle, um, kind of visual that you're giving me and I, it just kind of makes me think. Of spoon theory. Do you know what that is?
Yeah. Yeah. Every day you are presented with a certain amount of spoons, um, and it takes a certain amount of spoons to do each task in your day. And so I think some days we might get an extra couple of spoons in our daily. Our daily bread. Um, and some days we might not have that many, or even some days it might take an extra spoon to do what would normally only take one or two.
Um, and I kind of conceptualize it that way. Um, so I don't feel like I'm constantly going crazy or that my body is, um, controlling me. Because for me personally, that is a very difficult struggle to always feel like I am a prisoner to my body. So giving myself some, a sense of control again, of saying, I know I'm choosing how many activities I'm gonna do today based on how my body feels, and that is loving myself, or however you want to phrase.
If that makes sense. Yeah,
it does. And what would you say to somebody who is really struggling with the fact that they can't always have 10 spoons every morning?
Hmm. Um, I think the most practical thing is to write down kind of your non-negotiables for every day.
Um, just, and I mean very basic, like, okay, every day I need to shower if you have a job, what are my non-negotiables at work? Um, and operating off of that list on those really low days and realizing. and just convincing yourself that that level is good enough and good enough is good enough. . Um, and then you play with, you know, okay, if I'm feeling a little bit more energy, what can I add in?
And then if I'm feeling more energy than that, what can I add in? So kind of just having this working list of like energy levels of what you can add in or take away. But you have it layered so you already, you don't have to use the mental energy to think, oh gosh, what can I take out right now? It's just already laid.
Yeah. And I think, uh, pro tip with this technique is not to create your non-negotiables on a week. You're feeling good. Yes, . You create them while you're not feeling good and you're like, right. What is the most that I can do today? And what has to be done? It's non-negotiable, has to be done. And. Yeah, showering might not make the cut, but maybe brushing your teeth does or showering does and you know, or, or eating breakfast or, and ironically, yeah, it comes down to some of these really, really basic selfcare activities.
But those are a lot of times the things that we kind of let go of because our outside demands tend to take so much of us. And putting referrals, putting yourself first. Self care, I mean it, this is what it's about. The rest of the world can wait. I'm a better human when I have had a hot cup of coffee in the morning.
Not like running out the door, barely missing, you know, figuring out what works for you in your body that actually makes you feel like a better human. Not, how do I just get my li to-do list done that the world says I have to do.
Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah. My counselor told me one time that. I need to start looking at sleep as a form of worship.
Cuz I went through a just, you know, typical two period of time where I was like, I can do everything. I don't need to take care of myself. And she really put into perspective for me that. It's not okay to not eat breakfast or to not get an adequate amount of sleep, especially like having a physical condition.
So what she meant by that was that sleeping and eating breakfast and taking the time to drink my coffee at home, like you're saying, that relating to the higher power thing was me. Like taking time to worship me, taking time to really bless my body. And when I put it in that perspective, it helped me to do it.
So I think in whatever ways you can convince yourself that this is more important than just like, uh, self care, um, do it however you need to convince yourself. Because it, it is that important and eventually you might even be able to get to the point where you think, okay, just it's self care and that's what I need to do.
Yeah, I love that. I mean, it's, it's values, right? Figuring out what your values are and making decisions based on what your values are, not based on. Again, society says you have to do. Um, I know for me, I really prioritized, uh, self care when I started to think about the fact that I eventually wanted to be a mom and it was like my way of taking care of my body so that I was at my healthiest during this time.
When you put your body under an immense amount of stress, it's really is. People will say sometimes it's like training for a marathon and it really, really is. Um, and. Even so postpartum. I definitely . It's hard when you create all these systems in your life and then some, some little tiny thing comes in and says, Nope, all of them.
Yeah, all gone. Uh, no more systems and, um, So I'm nine and a half months postpartum now, and I am just now starting to feel like, okay, this is how I can get breakfast every morning again, and this is how I can drink my water and, you know, um, it's important. Sometimes you will definitely go through phases. I think this is an important piece to mention.
Like you can create these systems. There will be things that throw them off. You will not do this perfectly all the time. You might commit to eating breakfast and you can genuinely feel, you, feel notice, you feel better, and then something will happen where you go a week or a month or nine months without eating breakfast again.
Um, that's okay. You have to give yourself grace and, um, you have to know too. Okay. I'm intentionally letting this go because this actually is causing me more stress to try to figure out how to accomplish this, and my main priority is actually over here. So I'm gonna let that go for now. And when the time is right and it presents itself, I will intentionally jump back into that
habit or that thing.
Yeah. I love that you mentioned that cuz when people listen to this, I don't want them to think, oh, this is another thing I have to add to my list is figuring out what self care is. No, the whole kind of message that I'm getting at is all of these things are messy and it's gonna take time to figure them out and you're not gonna get it perfect right away.
And that's okay. That's how the process works. So any. Attempt is amazing. Like there's no room for shame here trying to figure all of this out. Um, if you're trying at all, you're doing great.
Yeah, yeah. It does take, it takes some time. Is there anything else that comes to mind that you wanna share today?
Today? Um,
I mean, I think that just the last thing that I was thinking, um, when we first talked kind of talking about grief and accomplishments was there is this very real mixed emotion that happens when you achieve something. Um, The, the best example I can think of currently is I recently got married and I was so, so excited.
Obviously I love my husband and I was just really struck by the grief that I felt at the same time because, because I knew. I am entering into a lifelong partnership with somebody who is now going to have to deal and help me care for my chronic pain. And that is, you know, a deep level of sadness at the same time.
So, . I'm sure other people who have chronic illness and chronic pain have experienced this weird mix of emotions whenever they accomplish something so great, because it's almost like I'm at a new level in my life, yet the pain or the sickness is still here and it's still going to continue to follow me.
So I just kind of wanted to highlight that that is a real thing that happens for. And even though we're experiencing so much joy and happiness, there is like this blurry face next to us that is pain and sickness that, you know, we would wish could unattach for a while. Yeah.
What do you, how do you help clients navigate that?
Or how have you navigated it for yourself?
Um, really just taking the time to, to process like the grief. Um, I think the worst thing to do would be to stuff it away. So taking time to talk about, you know, what makes this feel sad for you. So in, in the situation with my husband, I felt most sad because I felt like he had to agree to, you know, be in a lifelong journey with me in pain.
Um, and every situation might be different, you know, of what makes it feel sad. So kind of identifying that and. talking about what feels sad about it, and just honoring the fact that there can be two emotions happening at the same time. Um, that is a r a real revelation for a lot of clients, that they are allowed to have two conflicting emotions at the same time.
I think so many people had grew up hearing things like, you know, ah, You shouldn't have felt bad. You, you know, now you see everything's okay. Why did you feel that way? And it's like, well actually I still kind of feel that way cause it's still here. And emotions aren't logical. They actually are in a completely different part of the brain that that is, um, Separate from your logic center.
Right. So I'm glad you brought that up. The two emotions at one time. Um, you know, motherhood is, is exactly the same way. A lot of women struggle with, why do I feel sad when all I wanted was this, this thing that's here now. Um, and there's a loss that comes with having children. There's a loss of freedom, there's a loss.
Being able to just kinda like, get up and go. You can't just, you have to think and plan so much more. And as a person with chronic illness and a level of fatigue, we already experienced that, that thought process of planning and constantly making sure things are going in the way that they, they need to be going to keep this human alive.
There's grief in that. Um, you'll never get your
energy back to what it was before.
Um, but that's
a. The cliche, it's very true. It's worth it, but , um, it is, it's hard. It's hard.
And all you can do is continue to clarify what your values are, figure out what's important to you, and then take care of yourself enough.
So that you can get those needs met. And I do love the Enneagram cuz it kind of helps you figure out if you have no idea where to start with what's important to you, you just can't even like the engram, it really can help you figure
that out. Mm-hmm. ? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Definitely suggest for people who are not sure.
What their like core value is, or core motivation. Start with the Enneagram and it'll help you figure that out. Yeah,
yeah, I agree. Any last words you wanna leave people with? You've given
a lot today? Uh, no. Um, uh, you can find me at the richmont trauma center.com and people in. Yes for people in Georgia and there's lots of great information on that website in general.
Um, but yeah, that's it.
Thanks so much, Taylor.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Listen to Taylor’s interview with me, Destiny Davis, on Ep 21: Enneagram 2s, this one’s for you: Feeling like a burden while living with a chronic illness w/ Taylor Marmol
Taylor Marmol is an intern at the Richmont Trauma Center and a graduate student pursuing a master's degree in mental health counseling. Taylor's journey is fascinating, as she specializes in working with clients who have chronic pain and chronic illness, an area of expertise that has been deeply influenced by her ongoing research. In this blog post, we'll delve into her insights on chronic illness, the challenges it presents, and how individuals can foster reciprocal relationships and effective communication when facing these issues. Taylor's specialization revolves around chronic illness and chronic pain, a niche she has been naturally drawn to due to her interest and her research focus.
Meet Destiny - The host of The Chronic Illness Therapist Podcast and a licensed mental health therapist in the states of Georgia and Florida. Destiny offers traditional 50-minute therapy sessions as well as therapy intensives and monthly online workshops for the chronic illness community.