Beyond Talk Therapy: Bringing Purpose and Meaning into Every Session w/ Maureen Kane LMHC
The Journey to Writing "The Phoenix Requires Ashes
Maureen's book, "The Phoenix Requires Ashes," offers a profound exploration of her own experiences with chronic illness. She believes that changing one's relationship with pain can lead to healing, whether it means alleviating symptoms or personal growth. The book consists of poems written over three years, serving as a testament to the power of self-discovery, resilience, and the ability to embrace both the challenging and beautiful aspects of life.
The Healing Power of Writing
For Maureen, writing served as a therapeutic process during her struggles with chronic illness. It began with a simple question: "How do I handle change?" Through writing, she discovered answers, often not fully understood until shared with others. Maureen emphasizes that healing is not a solitary journey; it often involves community and connection. Sharing her writing and receiving feedback created a sense of camaraderie, especially during the isolating times of the pandemic.
The Role of Communal Healing
In Maureen's therapeutic work, she recognizes the importance of communal healing. Clients are encouraged to bring their unique preferences and creative outlets into therapy sessions. Maureen employs various therapeutic modalities, including Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), and lifespan integration therapy. The choice of modality depends on what resonates with each client. Maureen stresses that healing is a collaborative process, and it's essential to meet clients where they are most comfortable.
Navigating Cognitive and Experiential Approaches
In therapy, Maureen adapts her approach to what each client needs. Cognitive approaches involve working with thoughts and cognitions, which can be beneficial for addressing certain issues. However, some clients may require somatic or experiential work, especially when dealing with trauma or pre-verbal experiences. Maureen respects the pace at which clients are ready to explore these deeper aspects of their healing journey.
Empathy and Acceptance
Maureen emphasizes the significance of empathy and acceptance in the journey of those with chronic pain. She points out that until someone has experienced chronic pain themselves, it can be challenging to fully comprehend the physical and emotional toll it takes. Empathy, understanding, and a willingness to listen can go a long way in supporting individuals dealing with chronic pain.
The Role of Self-Compassion
Self-compassion is a valuable tool in navigating the challenges of chronic pain. Maureen shares a personal example of how she uses self-compassion during sleepless nights caused by menopausal symptoms. By being gentle with herself and responding lovingly to her body's needs, she finds greater comfort and rest, demonstrating the power of self-care and self-compassion.
Navigating Chronic Pain and Finding Strength
Maureen emphasizes the need for individuals to recognize their resilience and the strength within them to cope with chronic pain. She encourages reframing pain as a part of the body's natural healing process and urges people to acknowledge their place in the world.
Maureen also shares a heartfelt poem titled "Her Body Speaks" from her book "The Phoenix Requires Ashes." The poem beautifully conveys the nurturing and resilient nature of the body, highlighting the importance of appreciating one's body and its ability to sustain life.
Conclusion
Navigating chronic pain is a complex and often isolating journey. Maureen Kane's insights shed light on the importance of understanding, empathy, and self-compassion in providing support and healing for those facing chronic pain. By embracing different therapeutic approaches and fostering self-compassion, individuals can find relief and a path to improved well-being.
If you or someone you know is living with chronic pain, may this conversation offer a sense of understanding and encouragement. Thank you for joining us on this journey of exploration and empowerment.
Disclaimer: Everything we discuss here is just meant to be general education and information. It's not intended as personal mental health or medical advice. If you have any questions related to your unique circumstances, please contact a licensed therapist or medical professional in your state of residence.
Destiny Davis, LPC CRC, is solely responsible for the content of this article. The views expressed herein may or may not necessarily reflect the opinions of the guest.
The content in this blog post comes directly from a real, human interview between Destiny and her guest on The Chronic Illness Therapist Podcast. This written version was formatted using AI. Listen to the full episode to hear the actual conversation.
Listen to my full conversation with Maureen Kane on Ep 12: Beyond Talk Therapy: Bringing Purpose and Meaning into Every Session w/ Maureen Kane LMHC
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Episode transcribed with AI and may contain errors that are not representative of the actual word or meaning of the sentence.
Maureen Kane is a licensed mental health counselor in the state of Washington. Her clinical experience prior to private practice includes working with children and families at community mental health agencies. Before becoming a therapist, Maureen worked for 20 years managing social service programs, supporting seniors, caregivers, people with disabilities, children, people with healthcare needs, homeless youth and adults with learning literacy skills, she considers the therapeutic space to be sacred and works hard, to create a safe and respectful container for clients to explore their inner world. Many of her clients come to her struggling with chronic pain, chronic illness and medical trauma.
She'll also be publishing a book in the upcoming year about her own journey with chronic illness called the Phoenix requires ashes, Maureen. Welcome. Hi.
Thank you. So does it matter that the book is out now or
oh, oh, perfect. Yes, that's right. So your book is out and ready for publish it.
It is ready for, to be purchased yes,
it's on Amazon.
perfect. Yeah, I'll definitely put that link that you sent me, um, in the show notes. So people can check that out. Do you wanna start by telling us a little bit about your book and what led you to write it?
So I have experienced, um, chronic pain and chronic illness, uh, much of my life long before I became a therapist. And for me, what I learned was that, um, changing my relationship to it is healing. So healing might be the symptoms go away and healing might be that I grow.
Um, and I've had both experiences. And so whether or not we like it, pain can be a teacher and a guide and also a real impetus for creativity. And so, um, this book is poems from the last three years. So it started before the pandemic and kind of got me through the pandemic if we're actually through, I don't know.
um, and, um, so it's all kind of poetry about getting to know ourselves, finding our resilience, finding our way through hard things and holding both the hard and the beautiful at the same time. So
that's, I love that. That's really beautiful. Is there anything you can share about just the process of writing and kind of how that helped you get through and, um, Yeah. What that looked like for you?
Um, well, for me, a lot of the writing just began with a question of like, how do I handle change? And I would just start writing and I would just see what would come out.
Um, and then when I would share poetry with other people, they would reflect back, oh, well, you've answered your question this way. Or like, sometimes I don't even, I don't even know what I've produced until I share it, you know? And so, um, So a lot of it is just, I don't understand something I'm frustrated with something and then something gorgeous comes out of it.
So, yeah.
And it sounds like, so it sounds like this was our, um, A bit of a communal exercise for you as well.
Yeah. Yeah. And I definitely had people read it and feedback to me and I was like, oh, that, that is what I was
saying. You're right.
So I think that's, and that's a fun thing to do with clients too, so.
Oh, awesome. I mean, not my work there, so
yeah, yeah, for sure. Cause. I mean, I talk about this all the time, but we heal in relationship with others. Mm-hmm we just heal alone. And so poetry writing, sitting, and writing, it sounds like such a solitary activity, but it sounds like you found a way to really make that, community
driven. Yeah, definitely. And especially through the pandemic of sharing, um, a process with someone was really healing for me.
Yeah, that's a, that's awesome. Do your clients come in knowing. um, you're gonna be either writing or do you, you do art therapy as well?
Um, I don't, so I, I have a, a large bag of, of, uh, trick.
Isn't the right word. Um, basically I wanna meet a client with whatever works for them. So if it's C BT and it's intellectual and that's where they are, that's fine. Um, I'm also an EMDR and lifespan integration therapist, which can be really helpful. Um, and. Dealing with trauma or medical trauma or changing our relationship to our bodies.
Um, and then people who are into it might bring dreams or art, and we might look at it together and see what's there that we're not seeing at first glance. So it really depends on what lights a person up and what works for
them. Yeah, yeah. For the sake of the audience and maybe the people listening, who aren't therapists, can you kind of help explain the difference between.
Intellectualizing and what that looks like in therapy and how that, that might be okay for a little while. And then, you know, something like art therapy and how you maybe kind of what it looks like when a client comes to you and you're like, this is what we're working on intellectually versus when you have a client come in and you're like, actually, this is much more, let's do some, um, experiential.
Sure.
So working cognitively or intellectually can be really helpful. Um, I'm trying to make up an example, like, let's say a person went to the doctor and they were told. Uh, they would always struggle with the symptom. And so they took it on and they've always struggled. So we can say, well, and you know, we can look at that intellectually and say, well, is that true?
What would another doctor say? Do you wanna check it out with someone else? Um, and so we're working with, with thoughts and cognitions, um, and for some people, um, that's really helpful. And for other people, their pain is holding old traumas or. Something that's pre-verbal so only the body can talk about it.
That happened when they were really, really young. Um, and so then we have to go into somatic experiences or art or something that kind of bypasses logic because before the age of three, we didn't have language. So we didn't lay down memories in ways that we can work on them cognitively, um, or something that happened under anesthesia.
We wouldn't have a cognitive memory of, so, so that's, I'm not sure. Did that answer your question?
Yeah, it does. Yeah. And, and to further like piggyback off these, your answers, um, if somebody comes in and you kind of know that they, they would really benefit from more somatic work or, um, experiential work, but they're just not ready.
Is that still, is that still a place where you might stay in that cognitive? Um, area with them for a little while, or how would you, how do you navigate that?
Yeah, I mean, we, we just go where the client needs to be, so if they need to stay in the cognitive area, that's fine. Because for all I know there's a whole bunch of stuff that if we open up, they're not ready for, so we're doing a lot of resourcing connecting, cognitive work, and for some people that's all they want and that's okay.
And then for other people they're like, well, I've talked about this a lot and nothing has my relationship to it is not shifting. um, and some people come in because they know about different therapies and they're like, can I do EMDR? Can I, can I bring you a dream? Can I, you know, mm-hmm yeah. So we follow
their process.
That makes, I think that makes perfect sense and kind of delineates for people wondering how do I know what I need? And. I think the way you said that is perfect. If someone comes in saying, you know, I have talked about this, most of my clients who come to me or in my free consults, they're like, you know, I don't really know if therapy is what I need, cuz I've talked about this so many times and, and nothing changes.
And so that's when I start to explain somatic experiencing and yeah, more experiential work. And that that's how I know as well, but I had never thought about it in those terms. I like how you explained
that. Yeah. When something I love. Um, so I'm not trained in somatic experiencing, but one thing that I love about what you do, um, is my husband got a TBI, oh gosh.
Eight or nine years ago. And, um, it. Made it, so he can't cry. And so we found him a somatic therapist because he couldn't express anymore. And so using other ways of entry into expression has been really important for him. So thank you for doing what you do.
That's beautiful that that really warms my soul.
Um, yeah. Yeah. And for those who don't know a TBI as a traumatic brain, I injury. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Um, my, my dad actually has one as well. Uh, and so they, it shows up in, in a million different ways. Uh, you just got me thinking now about somatic experiencing with, with TBIs. Um, that's so beautiful though.
Is there anything that you feel comfortable sharing with that, um, about your husband's experience? Uh, and feel free to say no, that's, that's his experience.
Um, I dunno, I, the somatic work's been really helpful cuz it's very painful to watch him want to emote through tears and he can't. Um, and he also wrote a book cuz it's called a quest for tears um, so he wrote a book about his experience and that was one of the ways that he healed through it and made meaning of it.
Cuz making meaning is one of the really important ways that we, um, Are in better relationship to our lives and our bodies.
Yeah. That makes perfect sense. Yeah. And our experiences, um, the meaning that we make of it can really kind of set us down a path of depression and anxiety or can, or, or vice versa. I always wanna be careful with making sure people know it's not about, you know, necessarily just choosing, but that's why the work.
You do the work that I do, it helps people make that meaning. It's not just, well, I should choose to be happier. I should choose to see the light it's yeah. It's so much, you
know. Yeah. Yeah. And I, there is no way I'm gonna pretend that pain isn't painful. Um, and there is grief and there is anger and all kinds of stuff.
So you and I are talking about at the moment about, um, you know, like composting it and finding the or, um, Goodness. I've lost the word when you make gold out of alchemy, the alchemy of it, but that doesn't take away. Part of that alchemy is feeling all that really hard feelings.
Yes. That's such an important part of it, um, is feeling whatever comes up.
I know, um, acceptance is a, is a topic that you work on with clients as well. And I'd wonder how you define it or how you kind of navigate just the word acceptance and what that means to you.
Yeah, it's a tricky word. Isn't it it's like forgiveness. It's like, it's a super tricky word. Um, so the, the trick with acceptance is that we're.
Necessarily accepting it and expecting it to never change. We're accepting that this is my reality right now. And if I, if I'm in non-acceptance, then I suffer, I suffer less if I'm accepting it. Um, that doesn't mean it won't change and it doesn't mean it will change. Um, so it's tricky and we can't sometimes when we accept things they change, but you can't accept it.
Expecting that it will change.
it's, it's so tricky.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a, but we do, um, you know, like with pain, we, what someone once told me, we suffer three times more than we should. So let's say I have physical pain. There's the pain I'm experiencing now. There's the memory of all the times it happened before.
So let' say my back goes out. I'm like, oh no, I missed work before this other thing happened. Um, I had to go to the doctor. And then there there's all the pain that we're borrowing from the future. So, oh, this is gonna be the one that's worse than ever. This is gonna be the one that disabled me. Right. So if we can sit in acceptance in the moment and just be with what is then we we've lessened our load by two thirds, if that makes sense.
Perfect. And that's not easy but it can be touched at times.
What are some of your favorite tools on helping people like stay in that present moment, especially when it's really. Um,
that's a great question. Um, some of it, you know, are the meditative practices of breathing, or you're probably doing this in your work where you're sitting, you know, you're kind of holding the experience and you're watching it shift and change, and you're noticing that it's not so solid.
Um, and then I think. Diving into what does it teach me? What is, um, what am I, who am I becoming because of this helps because then it becomes a teacher and a friend more than an enemy. So, yeah. And we can try, I think we talked about trying a little bit together when you're ready. Um, of one way you can do it.
So,
absolutely. Yeah. Do you wanna go try that?
Sure. Um, so are you willing to play, do you wanna? Sure. Yeah. Okay. So this comes from, this is just one way. There's lots of different ways, but this comes from our, our name in Dell's work. He's a process Institute in the state of Oregon. Um, and he believes that body symptoms are like, he calls them waking dreams.
So when we have dreams, something is trying to express through us or talk to us. and he feels that body symptoms are just dreams when we're awake. Um, and so I'll just give you a little example. Um, if you're willing to come up with a symptom and it doesn't have to be like a big major thing, right? Just anything the sniffle, anything you might be experiencing now, that's just slightly annoying.
So it could be the sniffles. It could be a little muscle twin sounds. You also could make it up if you don't want to do something personal.
Yeah. Um, I'm, I'm constantly sniffly, so let's go with that. Okay, great.
Okay. So the idea of the sniffles, if you could name the direct experience of the sniffles, so we're calling them the sniffles, right.
But really what's the direct experience of it? Is it like, um, pressure? Is it, um, thick? Is it like, how would you name. If you weren't labeling it as the sniffles.
And are you asking for the physical, like sensory words that I would associate with it? Yeah. Okay. So the, the sensory experience of the sniffles would be. it's thick. Mm-hmm but
also quick Uhhuh it's
um, the word clogged comes to mind.
Okay.
It's cold. Mm-hmm
constant. Constant. Mm-hmm .
That's what comes up. Okay.
And then I think I'm gonna borrow from your work here, but I know very little about sensory essay, but, um, is there like a motion that goes with it? Is there something you can do with your hand or your body that, um, speaks to that direct experience?
I think of clenching.
Okay, so you, I see your shoulders coming up. Yeah. I don't know if your hands are closed. I can't see them. Yeah.
Kinda my whole, whole body just kind of coming inward and almost like I can visualize, um, like a canal. Right. And so just envision the liquid kind of moving through and I feel a bit.
Yeah. Braced.
Okay, so you braced, so the canal is inside or outside? Inside. Okay. Okay. So if you can kind of exaggerate that, um, turning inward, the bracing, can you kind of make that movement bigger in your body? Yeah. And just notice what you notice, if you exaggerate that, um, scrunched up bracing.
I notice shortness of breath,
Uhhuh, and just, yeah. Overall tightness in my body. Shakiness,
Uhhuh. Okay.
Okay.
Okay, good noticing. Okay. So the words that you used were thick, quick, clogged, cold, constant. And so what RNA would say is. That our bodies are expressing something inwardly that needs to be expressed outwardly. So can you think with, um, you can, I don't wanna make you have your personal stuff on this podcast, but I will ask the question.
Is there anywhere in your life where you need to be more thick but quick or where you need to be more constant or where you need to have that strong bracing of holding a canal? Um, that's not being expressed in your life right now.
Yeah. Without, without sharing details. I just got a pretty vivid image in my head.
Mm-hmm um, yeah, that brought up quite AMO. Quite a bit of emotion yeah. Okay. I don't wanna make you cry your podcast. It's good to just kind of, I think it's good to let people in and see, like, this is what's supposed to happen, you know, mm-hmm well, whatever happens is supposed to be what happens. Right.
And so that's, what's happening for me.
Yeah. So you got some kind of picture of where you could use these qualities in your outer life, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's one way we can have our symptoms guide us. And so we use it. Is it scary? ,
you know, sorry. The internet cut out for just a minute. So I got, um, the last thing I got was that's one way we can use this to kind of have our help, our allow our symptoms to guide us.
Yeah. And then I, if we were in therapy, we might talk about what is this symptom in your outer life, or what is this situation in your outer life?
How might you find that bracing that you need or that, um, thick quickness that you need? Um, and so it might lead into a conversation about your outer life.
Yeah, absolutely. And, um, for people who I, my experience, you know, um, even as early as maybe like five years ago before I really started doing a lot of this work.
Um, I had no ability to really, um, get like images in my head. Like I couldn't really visualize much of anything. And so when people would talk about visualize, visualizing or. You know, these kind of techniques, I would just feel so frozen and stuck because I couldn't do it. I couldn't sure. You know, do you, do you have that happen with clients and if so, what do you do to, to work through that with them?
Yeah, that's a great question. So a lot of people get information through, um, visual or auditory or kinesthetic sense. Um, and so sometimes we might just be working with. Um, how does it feel? Oh, it feels really cold. Okay. Um, or are you, are you hearing any messages? Is there a sound to it? And so we're trying to figure out sort of which sense comes to them.
Yeah. And, um, general, I haven't had anybody not be able to at least name the, what the symptom feels like.
Right, right. Yeah. One thing that I think helps me as well, um, with maybe clients that are kind of where I was back then, To help them name how quick or how slow or how, um, heavy their thoughts are.
Mm-hmm so if we connect to our thoughts more easily, then. The senses in our body or external sense. Like if we connect more easily to just what I'm thinking, then can you just at least look at your thoughts as kind of images, like an image on a billboard, you know, mm-hmm , can you just see a moving billboard and how fast is that going?
How big are the letters? Um, so that's one way that we kind of tap into that as well.
Yeah. Yeah. And the one we went through is just kind of one way in mm-hmm , but, um, it sort of is an example of, you know, the symptoms are there and we hope the lesson and we certainly wanna check it out with the doctor. We certainly don't wanna suffer if we don't need to.
Um, but they're there. So what can we do with it other than just suffer?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's such a good point. I think sometimes we almost feel like we need to be in our suffering. And I think in my experience, you can let me know what your thoughts are, are on this. But I find that that happens when we've just never had anyone around us who can accept us when we're suffering in a yeah, absolutely exacerbates the
issue.
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
Yeah. It's, if we're not, it's, it's kind of ironic because I think for those of us, with chronic pain, you might, you might learn sometimes we're in this, um, phase of our illness where that's like all we think about and all we wanna talk about and it's kind of, we're highly identified with it.
And, um, for some people they experience like no one wants to hear it. They feel like, you know, it's, um, . And so it's funny because not funny, it's, it's interesting how, um, the more we try to get what we need, sometimes the less the people around us are willing to, to give in that way. But there are ways to navigate this identity and kind of the relationship between our chronic pain and, and our needs and the people around us and what they can and are willing to give us.
And. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts about that or?
Yeah, it's a tough one because, um, until people experience it, they can't, you know, they can sympathize, but it's hard to empathize. Um, and the people experiencing it once so badly to be understood. And they're often misunderstood because they've been to a bunch of doctors they're told it's not a thing, you know, all the stuff that they have to go through.
Um, so. It's tricky. And I, I think part of this work that I think you do and that I do is, um, helping a person turn towards their symptoms and provide the nurturing. Um, that they might not be getting from other people because it's kind of a marathon. And so people are great with acute stuff. If you have the flu, people will bring you soup and give you sympathy.
But if you've got a thing that has lasted for 10 years, it can be a little more challenging. And so it doesn't mean we shouldn't reach out because we absolutely should. Um, and we can also add to our toolkit ways to turn towards ourselves.
Yeah. And provide some of that. Yeah. And
I'm thinking about, like, I didn't get much sleep last night because I'm doing the menopause thing.
And so , um, I don't sleep a lot anymore actually. Oh man. Um, yeah, so, but what I've learned is that. I at least can take those moments cuz you know, I'm hot and then I'm cold and then I'm hot. And then I , and I can take those moments to be so explicitly gentle with myself and say, oh, okay, you're cold. Let's let's let's snuggle up.
Let's have a blanket and just talk to myself really lovingly. And if I do that, I get a lot more rest than if I'm like, oh my God, here it is again. Yeah. Um, and so I'm trying to use it as an opportunity cuz my body's telling me it needs some attention. And if I can do that, my nights are better and I don't suffer as much
the next day.
That's such a beautiful example. Thanks for being willing to share that.
Yeah. And lots of people can understand it so I can, I can get support sometimes. And then if I tell someone who's 20 about it, they're like, no, that must suck.
I, yes. Well, I just had my first baby. And so I understand, um, yeah, the, the lack of ability to understand. Even though I had sympathy, like you said, there's, there's the difference. And, and I even, I think I had empathy as well, but there is such a difference when you go through something. Yeah,
kind of the embodied empathy of you've done it too.
And your experience of course is different than other peoples, but you, you can touch part of other peoples that I couldn't cuz I didn't have kids, so yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. That makes perfect sense. Yeah.
And congratulations
thank you. Thank you. I, I love your example of just. If I'm cold, I get a blanket rather than when I'm, um, you know, because we've all been there too, where it's like, God, this is happening again.
And like why? And we just go down this, this hole. And sometimes that's a, like, it's okay if that happens, but sure. Uhhuh, then we wanna kind of pause and, and ask ourselves, what, what do we need, what do I need in this moment? And yeah. You know, that feels like the best and I can even be
mad about it and nurture myself at the same time.
Like it's all. Okay. I just suffer less if I can, um, kind of wrap my arms around it and go, yeah, this sucks. Right. Okay. What do I need?
Yeah, exactly. Oh, I love that. That's such a good example.
Another thing that was on, um, the list that I have of, of your topics is about. Friends who say the wrong thing or go silent. Mm-hmm
can you speak to that? Yeah. Well, I think you, we were just speaking to it a little bit ago around, um, especially when something's chronic that friends get, I don't know what friends get, they get tired, they get, you know, you can get the sense that like everybody's living their life and nobody's paying attention anymore.
Yeah. Um, Or, you know, friends that you've had that were like your party friends, they're the ones you went hiking with and then you went out to a beer and now you can't do those things. Um, there's a lot of loss there and some friends will be able to tolerate that and some won't and so. Coming to therapy and just having that conversation can be helpful, cuz it's easy to start to think.
I already think I'm broken because my body's doing this thing. And now this is being reinforced by the friends that I have. Um, so sometimes it's understanding who, which friends you go to for what. Because there will be ones that can stick with. Yeah. Um, sometimes it's understanding that I have the power to nurture myself when other people aren't around.
Sometimes it's going to a support group for people who really get it. And they're able to respond in a different way of like, Hey, my thing's acting up. I can't be here for you now, but I will be next week, you know, kind of thing. Um, so it's kind of a broad conversation, but it is something that comes up when there's a change.
Um, and yeah, and it's not just with illness. I mean, you may have noticed like having a baby, right. You're friends without babies, that, that relationship's gonna change some. And so there's this whole navigation of. Where where's my level ground now. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Um, ASER Perel talks about a lot about, um, just how your, your, she talks about it in terms of, uh, romantic relationships.
But I think this is true of all our relationships. You know, one person can't be everything mm-hmm and that concept is really hard, I think, in the beginning to kind of wrap your head around, but you're speaking so beautifully to it. One one friend might have been, might be your party friend. And one friend might be really great for calling, you know, crying in the middle of the night when I'm having a, a pain flare up.
Whereas maybe that friend wouldn't be the friend that I call when I get a flat tire. And I have someone else that I might call for that. Right. So it's really recognizing who is, is good at what in your life. Doing that with ourselves too. Like mm-hmm so that we don't over extend ourselves to, if I'm not particularly great at a problem, I can say, you know, I, I don't know about this one and I can kind of, you know, that then the person can figure out how to get that me, me met without it, it being my responsibility, but I'm still.
Able to, we're still able to be in each other's lives and working
in capacity. Right. You can problem solve with that person of, I don't know, but I'll, I'll hang out with you when we try to figure out who might . Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
absolutely. Yeah. And it just goes back to meaning making, like you said earlier, you know, the, the meaning that we put to, if somebody can't help us, do we then internalize that as like that's because I'm too much or I'm person.
Right, right. Is it just like this person just doesn't have the tools to help this particular problem? Yeah.
I had that experience years ago with a friend I was crying and she said, I don't know what to say to you. Mm. And it just killed me cuz I was like, oh, I'm I'm too much. Nobody can handle this. Yeah.
You know, and years later I'm like, she was just didn't know what to say. Like I made a whole thing out of it, but she was just telling me that her experience. And it didn't mean she wasn't my friend. It didn't mean she didn't care. She just wasn't experienced in what I was going through.
Yeah, it it's really easy to internalize these messages and mm-hmm , um, you know, I guess maybe in a way, sometimes it's easier to blame ourselves because then almost it feels like we have control over it.
Right? Yeah. So it, yeah. Yeah. cause that's where acceptance comes into. Um, you know,
mm-hmm, acceptance of others,
acceptance of others and acceptance. I think that the inner critic pops up as a way to make sense of what's happening. You know, if your friend can't help you, you feel really upset about it. And then the only thing that you have to make up a story, your, your body just, and so the story for some people is I'm too much.
Mm-hmm for other people, it might be the world is incompetent. You know, no one can we make up stories to help us navigate that in our feeling of. maybe hopelessness or frustration or mm-hmm whatever feeling that we just don't wanna feel.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Is there anything, um, like maybe a piece of advice or, or something that you really love to leave clients with or that you find yourself kind of.
Um, a piece of advice that you find yourself helping, helping others kind of figure out over and over again.
Hmm.
I think I do a lot of helping people recognize two things. One is that they have a place in the world, cuz sometimes it feels like the world's going by and they're not. Um, and the other is recognizing their resilience cuz people will say, oh, I. You know, I had to go to the dentist and I was just exhausted all day.
And I'm like, you went to the dentist. Yeah. Even though, you know, you were panicky and you were nervous and, um, you told the dentist exactly what you needed. You got what you needed. You did it because we tend to like filter out our strength. Yeah. And focus on, you know, whatever symptoms that we're having.
So I love to be that mirror of like showing people that they are so strong. Um, and I know somebody said to me, once I was like, oh, I'm in so much pain. I must have a low pain tolerance. And they said, I bet you have a really high pain tolerance because you have so much pain in your living life. And I'm like, whoa.
You know, um, so helping kind of reframe strength and resilience, and also the sense that our bodies like to heal. Like they kind of like to get better. So, you know, they might struggle, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the next thing that's gonna happen is the one that's gonna topple me. Um, Because our bodies are pretty strong.
Like sometimes they hurt and sometimes they do weird stuff, but they're awfully strong. Yeah. Um, and helping kind of reframe that as well.
Yeah. That those are beautiful messages to leave people with. Um, I hope, I hope people get a lot out of that. So thank you for sharing. Oh yeah. You
bet.
Awesome.
I would love if you are willing to share one of your poems from your book, um, and as a reminder, people can find your book on Amazon and it's, um, and remind me the title of it. Oh, it's called the Phoenix requires ashes. Great. By Maureen Kane and your husband. What was his book again? Oh, his is a quest for tears.
Great. And his name is Sean Dwyer, D w Y E R. That sounds beautiful. Yeah. So when you're ready. Yeah. Okay. So this one I just wrote about if your body could speak, right? So it's called her body speaks. I speak for the Sinu that pulls up my bones, red and raw gaping and mine holding all together. The strength required, astounds, willing to knit again.
If pulled too far, listen. Listening, listen to my cracking straining reshaping. I do it for you and you don't notice until I snap, I speak for quiet awareness where my fibers align juices flow and symbiosis drives us forward. I speak for the miracle that knits muscle to bone and lets us dance. Can you not see me as beautiful?
I speak for the curves and dimples that pad and feed the body badges earned from creating and sustaining life. Holding nourishment for lean times, I speak for the fat that keeps you warm cushions, your falls, and knows exactly when to hold and when to release sustenance. Can't you see me as nourishing you.
I speak for the wisdom of physicality, the pulsing beating, moving aliveness that creates a body. Your oldest companion. May we make peace so you can see my miracles.
That was so beautiful as I was listening, I was just kind of allowing myself to hear, not think, and I just kept getting the feeling of a nurture, just, just nurturing over and over and over again, which is exactly what we just talked about. You know, putting that warm blanket on when you're cold and mm-hmm, appreciating your body for, um, taking care of you even when it's hurting.
Mm-hmm yeah. I'm glad you felt that. Yeah. Yeah, thank you so much. Is there anything else you wanna share or say, or leave the audience with? Not that I can think of. Okay. Yeah. Good. So thank you for the opportunity. I hope it's helpful to folks and thank you for all the work you're doing. Thank you as well.
All you bet. Thanks Maureen.
Listen to Maureen’s interview with me, Destiny Davis, on Ep 12: Beyond Talk Therapy: Bringing Purpose and Meaning into Every Session w/ Maureen Kane LMHC
Maureen Kane is a licensed mental health counselor in Washington state who has a diverse background that uniquely informs her therapeutic approach. With over 20 years of experience managing social service programs, she now runs a private practice, specializing in working with clients who struggle with chronic pain, chronic illness, and medical trauma. In addition to her counseling work, Maureen is also a published author, with her book "The Phoenix Requires Ashes" available on Amazon. In this blog post, we delve into Maureen's journey, her book, and her therapeutic methods.
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Meet Destiny - The host of The Chronic Illness Therapist Podcast and a licensed mental health therapist in the states of Georgia and Florida. Destiny offers traditional 50-minute therapy sessions as well as therapy intensives and monthly online workshops for the chronic illness community.